Brichardi ill?

fsn77

fsn77

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Feb 22, 2006
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Our male Brichardi has been acting strange the last 4 days. It appears that he is having trouble swimming properly. There's no visible external injury, although his belly does seem larger than normal -- swollen perhaps -- compared to the female Brichardi and his other tankmates. It's almost as if there's something wrong with his swim bladder. He appears to be swimming at a downward angle almost constantly just to stay in place / keep from floating up, instead of hovering like fish can do. I took a short video clip of him -- it's kind of dark, but it shows what he's doing.

Short video clip

The tank's regular diet is food intended for herbivores, except for the couple of bottom feeder tablets that go in for the 3 catfish (2 of the cats are very small, as in shorter than your pinky finger), so I wouldn't think he's suffering from "bloat."

Thanks in advance!
 
Hope it help's:)

fsn77 said:
Our male Brichardi has been acting strange the last 4 days. It appears that he is having trouble swimming properly. There's no visible external injury, although his belly does seem larger than normal -- swollen perhaps -- compared to the female Brichardi and his other tankmates. It's almost as if there's something wrong with his swim bladder. He appears to be swimming at a downward angle almost constantly just to stay in place / keep from floating up, instead of hovering like fish can do.
so I wouldn't think he's suffering from "bloat."

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I'm no Dr. or Biologist, but my experience is that you need to take him out, quarantine him & consider a Metronidazole treatment ASAP. I had the same exact symptom's w/ 1 of my fish, yes he was an Mbuna, however I didn't get him out soon enough & wound up losing him, 3 peacock's & 1 Blue Ahli :((in 1.5 month's ) to what seemed the same affliction w/ only slight differences w/ 2 which experienced a wht stringy release from the anal cavity. My water parameter's are/were near perfect, I did have some new addition's about a month b4 this, but there was no sign's of anything being "wrong" all fish "looked" perfect. If I had it to do over I would have removed him immediately & treated him for internal parasite, done a very thorough gravel clean (100%) & changed as much of the water I could w/ out endangering the rest of the community. This was my 1st time w/ something like this & after 30+ pgs. of searches (about 10hrs. reading) of the only common thread was 3 separate German Aquatic Bio's that said the parasite that causes Bloat & related symptom's (parasite's) is found in ALL FISH all over the world, ocean's, river's, lakes etc. (this theory is a new 1) & that at any time it (the parasite) can be "activated", most likely due to some know or unknown stress, can & will cause death unless successfully treated. The theory reminded me of the fact we all have cancer in our bodies, but it's only "activated" in some of us, why we don't fully understand regardless it's there. Call it bloat or don't, but I would bet the bank that you will lose him if you don't treat him & since it could be an internal parasite it will be released for the rest of the community to come in contact w/ since they all share the same water. Just my experience, look forward to what other's will say. Please don't take a chance though, if you can remove him to another tank then do, for the sake of the rest of what appears to be (in your video) a beautiful community! Good luck:)
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fsn77 said:
Our male Brichardi has been acting strange the last 4 days. It appears that he is having trouble swimming properly. There's no visible external injury, although his belly does seem larger than normal -- swollen perhaps -- compared to the female Brichardi and his other tankmates. It's almost as if there's something wrong with his swim bladder. He appears to be swimming at a downward angle almost constantly just to stay in place / keep from floating up, instead of hovering like fish can do.
quote]
Forgot to ask is he eating or does he shy away from doing so? Also does he move his mounth like he's eating when he's not?
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I don't think it's a mating dance... He's mated with the female in the past, and I've never seen him act like this -- especially for multiple days. He can't stop doing what he's doing, otherwise he floats upward. I captured him (thankfully without having to complete tear out the rockwork) and even then he was still swimming oddly as in the movie while I was chasing him. Now, in the QT tank, he's still doing it.

He swims towards the food, takes some in, but then spits it back out (his normal food). He is constantly moving his mouth (more than required for normal breathing) -- kind of looks like he's hyperventilating.

After looking at him more, he seriously looks constipated -- that's how much his belly is bulging / bloated. It thins out very quickly at his anus, which doesn't appear to be swollen or irritated.

He really is a beautiful fish -- much more than the video clip shows. In all reality, it was hard even for me to see how beautiful he is under the poor lighting on that tank, as his coloration was much more impressive under actual daylight when I netted him.

Thanks for the help... keep it coming!
 
fsn77 said:
I don't think it's a mating dance... He's mated with the female in the past, and I've never seen him act like this -- especially for multiple days. He can't stop doing what he's doing, otherwise he floats upward. I captured him (thankfully without having to complete tear out the rockwork) and even then he was still swimming oddly as in the movie while I was chasing him. Now, in the QT tank, he's still doing it.
He swims towards the food, takes some in, but then spits it back out (his normal food). He is constantly moving his mouth (more than required for normal breathing) -- kind of looks like he's hyperventilating.
After looking at him more, he seriously looks constipated -- that's how much his belly is bulging / bloated. It thins out very quickly at his anus, which doesn't appear to be swollen or irritated.
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This is exactly what I witnessed & I'll stand by my recommendation, treat for protozoan infestation/internal parasites ASAP. Metronidazole in the tank he came from will help it from spreading further.

He needs to be treated in his q/t w/ Clout . Remove any carbon from filter. Using a disposable cup, dissolve in some tank water one tablet of Clout per 10 gallons (round up if necessary). Pour the mixture into the tank just a little bit at a time, perhaps taking a half hour to administer a complete dosage -- this drug can be very strong and so it is important to follow this guideline so as not to shock your already stressed fish. Repeat the same dosage for the next two days, again performing a 30-40% water change beforehand. Daily water changes are essential for Clout's maximum effectiveness. The water changes also facilitate the removal of the old, disabled chemicals. Three days of treatment should be sufficient if the inflammation is not too severe, otherwise treat for a full five days. If after five days, you still don't notice a change, then resume treatment again after a two day hiatus. Once you have concluded the treatment, perform a final water change 24 hours after the last dosage. Replace carbon 24 hours after last treatment. If at any time during treatment fish appear to experience extreme stress ie labored breathing, gulping air, excessive flashing ect, change 75 percent of the water immediately.
Also in his q/t use Epsom salt (Magnesium Sulfate) which is a natural laxative and will help your bloated fish lose some of the water it has been taking on. Use 1 tablespoon's per 10 gallon's, mix w/ existing tank water & VERY SLOWLY add to tank just like the Clout, drip in if possible (siphon in using 1/16 id tubing, size of hose you see on pwrhd's to supply the air or hose for tap water purifiers). Magnesium is also found in cichlid salt's & freshwater aquarium salt so this is why I said only 1tblspn per 10gls. normally it would be as 3-4x's that if an aquarium isn't being regularly used. remember salt does not evaporate so only replace it when changing water. Hope that makes sense:)

For the tank he came from you should STRONGLY consider treating w/ Metronidazole to remove any residual parasitic presence. Use 250 mg of Metronidazole per 10 gallons of aquarium water (I used API General Cure any LFS will have this & Clout). Follow instruction's carefully. Remove any carbon from filter. Water temp should be as close to 82°F as possible. Also stop feeding them for at least 2 day's, they can go for 7-10 or more w/ out harming them. This will give them a chance to "clean out their gut" should it be needed. When using these or ANY other medications, it is a good idea NOT to turn on your HOOD LIGHTS while treating your fish. These two drugs don't have any active ingredients that are disabled by UV rays like many antibiotics, notwithstanding, the dark atmosphere will help your fish to relax and recuperate. Metronidazole works better at elevated temperatures (e.g., 82°F), but aeration should be increased because the O2content of water decreases with higher temperatures. Elevating the temperature of the water can be beneficial also because it increases the fish's metabolism and heightens its immune response, while also hastening the life cycle of the parasite, thereby shortening the time required to cure the fish. Take beach towels/drk bed sheet's (at least 2 layer's) & drape them over all the sides of the tank you can access (mine were in total drkness for better part of a week) when removing the towels to do water changes, medicate ect. remove 1 layer at a time waiting 5-10min. between each layer so as not to SHOCK them w/ light. Selcon is recommended as a nutritional supplement & not garlic.

This may all seem extreme, but the alternative could be losing your fish:( I know this 1st hand & it's very saddening & expensive, specially if it is something YOU CAN STOP. Just because we might not see it DOESN'T mean it's not there. You need to act quick, if you question what I'm saying chk out search's on the net & what you find will assure you that this is necessary. Some of this was taken from 1 of my best go to sources http://www.cichlid-forum.com/index.php. Just keep in mind the cause is not relevant the treatment is the only thing to be concerned w/, most of the "reasoning" you might find, place's the blame on water quality, feeding, stress ect. None of it matters, only resolving this deadly affection, maybe not "Bloat", but def a protozoan blockage of the INTESTINAL TRACT, which in 2 of my fish looked as if they were amaciated not bloated, these were the ones w/ the stringy wht anal release. These MED's are STRONG not to mention the stress he'll be under & his beautiful feather fin's will take a beating, they will grow bck, have faith, if you do treat the comunity tank w/ Metro they will also look a bit ruffed up this is all normal. None of these measures will harm any of your fish should it not be necessary, inaction however, well I'm sure you get the picture. Let us know what you decide & how thing's wrk out, this is just another chance for us to learn & grow. Stay positive & good luck:)

Any day we learn something new is a GREAT day, today is a GREAT day!
 
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Ok, so here's where things stand:
1) Male Brichardi in QT
2) no lights on his home tank or the QT
3) no feeding for the next 5 days or so (do this 2 - 3 times per year anyways when we go on vacation, so I know it's not a big deal for them)
4) Espsom salt dripped into the QT

While you wouldn't know this of course, over the years I've accumulated my share of "what if" equipment -- a few extra powerheads, a couple extra filters, acclimation / drip tubing kits (although I do use these to drip acclimate any new fish, be it fw or sw), etc. -- all in case of situations like this. Despite this fish being sick, it's great to get some use out of the "what if" stuff (shows some real need for it to my wife, other than in hope of setting up more tanks). Fortunately, all of this stuff was on-hand and made the process thus far quite easy.

Honestly, I don't see any reason to question what you've said. I have a B.S. in Biology, worked as a pharmacy tech for a few years, and read the info on the meds you suggested -- it all makes sense. I don't really think what you're suggesting is extreme, either. As people, when we're sick, it's best for us to be removed from the stresses of everyday life for a quicker recovery. And, many of us do the same for our other pets (cats and dogs), so it makes sense that anything that can be done to reduce the stress level of fish during treatment / recovery would be, to at least some extent, helpful.

I'll be picking up some meds today -- sure hoping the prices at the LFS aren't that much higher than online. It doesn't seem like an expensive treatment, but again I'm basing that by the online prices.

I always use Selcon in our reef tank, but never thought of using it in our fw tanks, too.

I'll keep you posted...
 
I'm out of town this wknd, be bck Sun. night, hope all is well by then & if anything comes up then I'm sure others here will be able to help, sound's like you have it as under control as one can be in this life:)
 
Well, thus far the treatments are not showing any positive results. The poor guy is still just as swollen as he has been and continues to struggle swimming / hovering normally. He is definitely expending a vast amount of energy and it is starting to take its toll on him. He's not listless, but it's pretty obvious that he's not running on a full tank anymore.

Any futher suggestions?
 
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