Bringing Down The Nitrites...

LunchBox said:
:OT: so not to sound like a jerk, but do you know tiger muskies get to be 40+ inches long? a 90 is going to be outgrown by 1 of those let alone 4. do what you will, though ;)

back on topic though, adding live plants can help control your nitrites a little in addition to the good water change advice already given
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Yeah - I don't go building a house on a foundation of sand dude. The plan is to keep them for a year. They will be 20" to 24" by next June, and then they are being planted into their new home in a 5 acre ranch pond that has a small fish problem. The normal rate for Tigers per lake acre is around 1 to 3 per acre. This is a 5 year project that I am doing (my first time as an aquarium owner, and I know there are some purists out here that are probably pissed off, but that's their problem).
 
First of all, echoofformless, and most regulars on this forum, are just trying to give you good advice. We care about fishes.
Secondly, using feeder fish is a bad idea because they often carry diseases and parasites which are obviously very transferrable to their fishy predators. Besides the fact that it IS cruel.
Third, the guy at your LFS is wrong. Sorry to tell you the truth, but many of those employees don't know what they're talking about. This is of course not always the case, because we have several pet store employees on this forum who are making an effort to become some of the knowledgeable minority of LFS workers.

You SHOULD be doing water changes to bring down nitrites. It's the only way that's guaranteed to work and is safe for you fish. It WILL NOT disrupt the cycle because it's very difficult to remove or kill the nitrifying bacteria through simple water changes and siphoning. Though some of the good bacteria do exist in the water, most of them are living on surfaces (tank, decorations, gravel, filter media). With the amount of suction a gravel vacuum puts outs, you could vacuum all day and not make an appreciable dent in the bacteria population in your gravel.

That's our advise (I say "our" because it's the same advice that reputable members here will tell you over and over again). Take it or leave it.
 
plah831 said:
First of all, echoofformless, and most regulars on this forum, are just trying to give you good advice. We care about fishes.
Secondly, using feeder fish is a bad idea because they often carry diseases and parasites which are obviously very transferrable to their fishy predators. Besides the fact that it IS cruel.
Third, the guy at your LFS is wrong. Sorry to tell you the truth, but many of those employees don't know what they're talking about. This is of course not always the case, because we have several pet store employees on this forum who are making an effort to become some of the knowledgeable minority of LFS workers.

You SHOULD be doing water changes to bring down nitrites. It's the only way that's guaranteed to work and is safe for you fish. It WILL NOT disrupt the cycle because it's very difficult to remove or kill the nitrifying bacteria through simple water changes and siphoning. Though some of the good bacteria do exist in the water, most of them are living on surfaces (tank, decorations, gravel, filter media). With the amount of suction a gravel vacuum puts outs, you could vacuum all day and not make an appreciable dent in the bacteria population in your gravel.

That's our advise (I say "our" because it's the same advice that reputable members here will tell you over and over again). Take it or leave it.
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Wow - a novel of finger wagging.

Thanks for the advice
 
sly2kusa said:
Yeah - I don't go building a house on a foundation of sand dude. The plan is to keep them for a year. They will be 20" to 24" by next June, and then they are being planted into their new home in a 5 acre ranch pond that has a small fish problem. The normal rate for Tigers per lake acre is around 1 to 3 per acre. This is a 5 year project that I am doing (my first time as an aquarium owner, and I know there are some purists out here that are probably pissed off, but that's their problem).
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So you are going to have four highly aggressive 20+ inch fish in a 90 gallon aquarium? Good luck with that. I would transfer them out much sooner... Not many fish in the wild will tangle with even a 15 inch muskie, and if there IS any fish that would take them in that pond, then it shouldn't have a small fish problem.

Don't go getting offended about people chastising you, when you post on a forum full of responsible aquarists about doing something as retarded (sorry, but that is the appropriate word here) as keeping muskies in a fish tank without stating your intentions to release them you set yourself up for it.

That said, you should NOT re-release aquarium fish into the wild after they have been exposed to feeder fish and aquarium fish. For one thing it is illegal in most areas. Reason being that if exotic fish diseases make it into the local fish population they can destroy entire ecosystems (think smallpox and American Indians). Hopefully your friend's pond is man made and is isolated from rivers and streams. So yes, I question the wisdom of the idea altogether... if your indiscretion and lack of research (yes, your foundation really IS built on sand, no matter how good you thought your unresearched idea WAS) destroys the local freshwater ecosystem and the local fish and game officials found out you would be in serious trouble. You would deservedly (having been warned about the possible ramifications of your actions here) be liable for whatever damage it caused and criminally charged for it.
 
There is a difference between re-releasing game fish into the wild and putting them into a personal man-made farm pond. Granted, neither one is looked favorably upon, but the disease situation should be greatly limited. I am sure this situation is one where a bunch of guys want the bragging rights to having big muskies in their pond. I am not going to pass judgement on that, but there is value in educating them so it is done as safely and humanely as possible. Give them credit for seeking advice.

Is there something in the air? I don't usually do posting on these sites because all of the advice I see is right on, but I read an awful lot of advice. It seems to me everyone is rather quick to pass judgement on everyone else lately. (and not necessarily in a nice way)
 
Sly, the guy in the fish store doesn't know what he's talking about if he told you NOT to change the water while cycling.

Change the water WILL make the cycle take longer, but at significantly lower levels of ammonia and nitrite, and that tradeoff is MUCH easier on the fish.

If I were you, I'd be changing 50% of my water every DAY until it finishes cycling.
And yes, get your own test kit - it's very easy to do, and you can't trust fish stores.

Two caveats about changing 50% a day: If your nitrAtes are particularly high (they probably aren't) or the pH in your tank is significantly different than the pH in your tap (it probably isn't), you may want to do a bit less - maybe 25% - to avoid shock.

IF you can find Biospira, that's a great suggestion.
 
kjf91004 said:
There is a difference between re-releasing game fish into the wild and putting them into a personal man-made farm pond.
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Agreed, and I am not faulting that. I merely felt in order to gave advice responsibly that I should mention he could conceivably kill every fish in the pond with his well meant (but poorly planned) intentions.
 
Yes, definitely a great point...that usually gets overlooked. We just had a situation in Wisconsin where someone dumped a piranha in a local lake, and another person caught it. I'm sure he wasn't in there too long because he wouldn't have made it through winter up here, but potentially very dangerous!

I just wanted to point out that it is hard being new, and even harder asking questions.
 
I think the hardest thing is accepting correct advice you don't like and admitting errors in judgement. I base that on what I see in posts on this site all the time.
 
This will be my last post (because I'm sick of the lack of warm reception out here from the would-be "responsible" keepers and hobbists and their would-be "knowledge" and "truth". I just don't like arrogant people who immediately judge what's being done).

I would NEVER go releasing a game fish like a Muskie (let alone any fish for that matter) into a major waterway. That WOULD be retarded. I did state my intentions (not immediately - but in my second or third message) to put them into my buddies ranch pond (which by the way isn't connected to any major body of water). The whole reason I chose the Tiger Muskie is because it's a hybrid and the chances of it reproducing and taking over the body of water (like the mess some idiot caused up at Lake Davis with Northerns) is slim to none (if they do for some reason turn out to be male and female of these first 4 - their reproduction rates are less than .03 successful in the wild).

The only reason why you find successful (successful = strong and healthy) Tiger Muskies in natural/man made areas is usually due to the presence of both Northerns and Barred/Spotted Muskies.

I have to say that for a place where I was really looking forward to learning and gaining what I was hoping to be both new and fun information - the majority of you out here have been pretty cool, but for the few that have decided to flame me from the beginning - you get your wish, and I'm out of here. I don't take kind to people who immediately judge others just because their viewpoints of simple feeding methods don't match theirs, and the fact that someone would call me "retarded" and think that I'm that stupid shows that there's an overly judgemental (and no doubt liberal, left wing mindset) out there that I wouldn't have done real well with anyways.

To those of you who shared your knowledge and opinions without being jerks - much thanks.

Later :rolleyes:
 
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