Bullying issue

K

Kevin007

AC Members
May 27, 2008
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General Info:

55 Gallon tank - Eheim 2217 + HOB
7 Yellow Labs (2.5 - 3.5 inch)
6 Aceis (2.5 - 3.5 inch)
5 Rusties (1.5 - 2 inch)

Last week my smallest rustie died from bullying, I saw him hiding alot so I thought he would be ok if he stays hidden, a few days later he died.

Now the 2nd smallest rustie (now smallest) is being bullied too, he doesn't seem to be hiding but staying in the upper left hand side of the tank, he looks more and more beat up each day, torn fin, fighting marks on his left side, etc.

Instead of waiting to see what happened like last time, I've decided to maybe net him out and put him in a guppy fry box thingy.

What could be the possible reason for this bullying? I have seen him chase others but not the others chasing him, I never saw any aggressive behavior when I watch them, just the occasional chase here and there. Other fishes don't get beat up, its always like the smallest and weakest that gets picked on.

Last question, when I let him out after he is healed, will he have to establish territories again? Is that a possible problem?
 
Any number of reasons for bullying. Two instant observations: your rusties are much smaller than the others and at a disadvantage size-wise, and this guy is now at the bottom of the totem pole with your other, smaller rusty gone. Did all these fish go in the tank at the same time or have ya added them in batches? What order did they go in? How long ago were they added? Have ya changed, rearranged, added or removed decor recently? Did ya change, rearrange, add or remove decor whenever you added fish? Are ya sure there's enough cover in the tank for the population ya have? Who's chasing him: the other rusties, the labs, the aceis or all of them? Just a few questions that instantly came to mind when looking over the general set-up.

Even if ya leave him in the tank in the fry holder, you'll have to rearrange the decor to keep him from getting beat up again if and when ya reintroduce him to the main tank. While he's in the fry holder, the other fish are claiming territories and those territories will need to be disrupted. If you have a quarantine tank, put the rusty in there and get him out of the main tank completely. That fry contraption isn't big enough to allow him to heal and he's still in sight of the other fish. Even though they can't get to him, the fact he can see 'em isn't reducing his stress level.

Best advice I can give ya without a bit more info.

WYite
 
yep.. cichlids will do that. For no apparent reason... they will get bored and decide to pick on something. They don't need a reason.

I agree with Wyomingite. The best thing to do is remove the rusty and let him heal. When you put him back in the tank.. do a bit of rearranging. This is not a garuntee this will work.

You didn't mention which fish were bullying the rusty's. That might also help.
 
Wyomingite said:
Any number of reasons for bullying. Two instant observations: your rusties are much smaller than the others and at a disadvantage size-wise, and this guy is now at the bottom of the totem pole with your other, smaller rusty gone. Did all these fish go in the tank at the same time or have ya added them in batches? What order did they go in? How long ago were they added? Have ya changed, rearranged, added or removed decor recently? Did ya change, rearrange, add or remove decor whenever you added fish? Are ya sure there's enough cover in the tank for the population ya have? Who's chasing him: the other rusties, the labs, the aceis or all of them? Just a few questions that instantly came to mind when looking over the general set-up.

Even if ya leave him in the tank in the fry holder, you'll have to rearrange the decor to keep him from getting beat up again if and when ya reintroduce him to the main tank. While he's in the fry holder, the other fish are claiming territories and those territories will need to be disrupted. If you have a quarantine tank, put the rusty in there and get him out of the main tank completely. That fry contraption isn't big enough to allow him to heal and he's still in sight of the other fish. Even though they can't get to him, the fact he can see 'em isn't reducing his stress level.

Best advice I can give ya without a bit more info.

WYite
Click to expand...

Great advice, thanks!

1. I added the yellow labs 1 month before adding the others, I brought the 6 rusties and 6 aceis at the same time and rearranged the whole tank before adding them in.

2. I think there are enough covers..

3. I haven't witnessed anyone chasing him, the fish are very peaceful when I am around.

4.. I don't have another tank to set up unfortunately.

5. The thought of rearranging the tank gives me headaches, but I'll do it for the fish.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170062
 
Nice looking tank. Set up looks good.

1. I added the yellow labs 1 month before adding the others, I brought the 6 rusties and 6 aceis at the same time and rearranged the whole tank before adding them in.

That should have eliminated the territorial issue if ya rearranged it enough.

2. I think there are enough covers.

Agree.

3. I haven't witnessed anyone chasing him, the fish are very peaceful when I am around.

Keep an eye out. Sit back from the tank and watch from a distance for a while. I suspect its the largest, most dominant fish or two in the tank (any species) or other rusties. I forgot to ask before. Is the new victim male or female? What is the ratio of males to females on your rusties? At two inches ya may be able to see signs of eggspots. Though with rusties I've always had problems until they were a little larger myself.

4. I don't have another tank to set up unfortunately.

If you can afford it, go get ya a five gallon tank for a quarantine, with a cover and a sponge or box filter. Heck, if ya were close I'd give ya one. Quarantine tanks are a must have with Africans. Well anytime, actually.

5. The thought of rearranging the tank gives me headaches, but I'll do it for the fish.

LOL, done it hundreds of times. But its worth it in the end.

One last note. Even though its widely practiced and I do it myself, crowding mbunas to reduce aggression isn't guaranteed. Even some individuals of so-called milder species can be worse than the norm. Keep your eyes peeled and it'll all come together.

WYite
 
While I was waiting for advice, I just left the rusty alone to see what happens, he is now out and about, not hiding much anymore and there haven't been any new injuries.

I'm just gonna leave him in there until I see things get worse.

I'm sorry wyomingite, but I cannot distinguish the fish's sex, hes around 1.5 inch, and kinda purpleish with one little eggspot, I suspect its a he.

How do you know which fish is the most dominant? One yellow lab is larger then the other and display spectacular colors and no one really messes with him, I suspect its that one?

thanks, wyom, you do rock!
 
He was fine last night..and I couldn't find him tonight, I am assuming he is dead.

This is very upsetting, I cannot find any Rusties this sized and this colourful, I'll have to live with only 4 for now (until my other cichlids kill them one by one)

Man this is exactly what I DIDNT Want to happen when i decided to go with cichlids.
 
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