Can you identify this disease?

[Ulan]

In a different thread, I had already somewhat prematurely stated that I lost all of my Serpae and Pristella tetras to disease and that my guppies were on their way out, too. Well, I had experienced multiple deaths per day, but there's one of each tetra species still barely alive, and the last 5 female guppies seem to cling to their lives, too. Perhaps, I should make a last attempt at a treatment. Therefore, here a description of the symptoms, although I think some might be secondary:

• Guppies: Quite a few of them died symptomless. All of them carry parasites I don't get rid of (white stringy poop). Many have tattered fins. Some have whitish patches on their skin. Some look as if they had deformations growing below their skin. Some died bloated.
• Serpae Tetras: Popeye. Deformed growth below skin. Skin discoloration (whitish). Loss of balance.
• Pristella Tetras: Whitish to silvery patches on their body. Swim bladder problem (you can see the accumulation of air in their body) with loss of balance.

I had tried erythromycin, Clout, Jungle lab parasite tabs, Melafix and Pimafix without effect.

Any ideas what this is and what medication to try? I have a few at home.

 

[Ulan]

Absolutely no takers?

My own thoughts go in the direction of something like a bacterial disease (perhaps even tuberculosis) and columnaris.

I have the following at hand:

• Triple Sulfa
• Tetracyclin
• Furan-2

What would you try first?

 

[Coler]

Can you post the details of the setup in this thread please ? meaning tank size, filtration, occupants, and how long set up.

You need to buy a test kit, not paper strips but a liquid drop (API make a great one) and test your water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and post those readings too.

If I had to guess, your fish have numerous problems which are not normal in a correctly stocked, healthy tank...the white patches sound like columnaris bacterial infection or fungus, the bload could be diet related (what are you feeding them ?), and then you have the stringy white poop (which is not always internal parasites).

Basically, presuming the tank is not too small for the inhabitants and is properly filtered, step one is make sure the water is perfect, and the tank is cycled. Step one and a half is maintaining good conditions (water changes - how often do you do a water change, how much do you change, and do you gravel vac?)

edit : i typed all that and then I saw how frequently you posted here, so I apologise for spelling out the basic stuff. Got any pics of the sick fish ? Presuming now that you have pristine water conditions then maybe TB is a possibility in which case I would nuke the tank.

 

[Ulan]

The fish are from different tanks (I have 5). Water parameters are good (Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate = 0/0/~10), according to the API test kit. The disease probably came from some new cherry barbs that I had just bought and which mostly died. I must have spread it over the tanks during filter maintenance (I cleaned the HOB's and filled all with the same glass :wall.

I would not really want to nuke the tanks at the moment, as the other inhabitants look fine (the tank where the Serpae died also contains Glowlights that show no sign of disease), and some tanks contain invertebrates. All catfish (cories, SA bumblebees, bulldog plecos, otos) are fine (the cories even just spawned, although the eggs were eaten).

I feed different foods, like flakes, dried bloodworms, daphnia, algae wafers, shrimp pellets, etc. I think that all bloating, swim bladder problems and popeye are just secondary effects from kidney failure.

I tried to take photographs of the survivors in the quarantine tank, and only this one turned out ok (sorry for the water stains):

 

[jaysen]

i would look into fungus, neon tetra disease, and bacterial issues. do some research and check other photos to see what you are dealing with.

 

[emptywallet]

well serpea tetras may cause the rattered fin

 

[Ulan]

My serpae were very gentle, so I can exclude the involvement of any fights.

If it's neon tetra disease, nothing will help. I don't think it's fungus, because Pimafix didn't help, and not all fish had symptoms. That leaves columnaris or bacterial infections.

Looks as if one guess is as good as the other. Perhaps, I'll just use Furan-2 and look what it does.

 

[Lupin]

Ulan, first of all, your serpaes are not as passive as you think. Perhaps you are not aware they ripped fins behind your back? Serpaes will always be vicious fin nippers. I always said one day they will show you a reason why they will never get along in a community tank quite well.

Coler is correct in clarifying the presence of the appearance of whitish stringy poo doesn't always mean internal parasites. What foods are you giving these fish? The poo could be slime of intestines being passed out. There is no evidence of neon tetra disease there.

Lastly, your case is internal bacterial infection which explains the difficulty of those meds to stop what is causing the fish deaths. Internal diseases are far harder to eliminate than external. Get an airpump to increase oxygen levels. If you have any medicines in your tank yet, now is the time to use carbon to remove the residues. Remove the carbon when you think you are done. Keep temperature at 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit. Start treating the tank with furan2 and kanacyn by dosing both into your tank. For powder meds, put them into the cup and dissolve them with tank water before dumping to the tank. Treat the foods with kanacyn before feeding them. Isolate your serpae tetras once they recover. Do not anymore mix them with pristellas and guppies. They will never work together.

 

[Lady Ns]

If you can, try Aquarium Science Multi-Purpose, it's gotten me outta a few tight spots with dropsy and Ich before, might help you out too.

 

[Ulan]

Coler is correct in clarifying the presence of the appearance of whitish stringy poo doesn't always mean internal parasites. What foods are you giving these fish? The poo could be slime of intestines being passed out. There is no evidence of neon tetra disease there.

As stated above, mostly flakes, algae tabs, shrimp pellets, freeze-dried bloodworms, etc. The guppies also eat algae off the plants.

Lastly, your case is internal bacterial infection which explains the difficulty of those meds to stop what is causing the fish deaths. Internal diseases are far harder to eliminate than external. Get an airpump to increase oxygen levels. If you have any medicines in your tank yet, now is the time to use carbon to remove the residues. Remove the carbon when you think you are done. Keep temperature at 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit. Start treating the tank with furan2 and kanacyn by dosing both into your tank. For powder meds, put them into the cup and dissolve them with tank water before dumping to the tank. Treat the foods with kanacyn before feeding them.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have an additional airpump running in the hospital tank. I don't have kanamycin at hand, only tetracyclin or triple sulfa (and the non-working erythromycin). I already started with the furan-2 dosing yesterday. I'm a bit hesitant to try double medication, because several of the fish are very weak, and I can already see that the furan-2 stresses them somewhat.

Ulan, first of all, your serpaes are not as passive as you think. Perhaps you are not aware they ripped fins behind your back? Serpaes will always be vicious fin nippers. I always said one day they will show you a reason why they will never get along in a community tank quite well.

I know their reputation, and your experience might be different, but I have had the serpaes for nearly one year, and they never ever touched any other fish in their tank. They had been living with glowlights and other fish for the whole time, and there simply were no ripped fins. If you have more than 6 serpaes, it's very likely that they will keep to themselves. Problems occur with smaller numbers. They fight for small territories, and they need other serpaes to fight against. In my personal experience, they are very good community fish. But this may be down to individual fish (strains). For example, I would advise against using Von Rio tetras in a community tank from my personal experience, although everyone else says they are fine.

Anyway, the damage on the guppies is not from the serpaes, as they came from different tanks and had that damage before they came to the hospital tank. The last living serpae is much too sick and busy trying to keep upright to do anything nasty at the moment.

Isolate your serpae tetras once they recover. Do not anymore mix them with pristellas and guppies. They will never work together.

I never tried guppies with serpaes. As I have only one serpae left so far, he might indeed become a threat to others, as he is missing his usual sparring partners. I'll look into a solution if he survives.