Canister wet/dry or wet/dry trickle filter for fresh water

[smitty]

As already stated the trickle build more biological, but the canister does more mechanical filtration while also providing a nice balance of biological. Now keep in mind if your going canister nothing, and I mean nothing matches up to Eheim. This is coming from someone with first hand knowledge. I always give the nod to Hagen products (they make the Fluval) But the Fluval is no comparison to to the Eheim. I have been running mine for at least 12yrs with no problems the Fluval lasted half that time. Also the Eheim has better media. I have 5 Eheims now 2-2260, 2-2217, 1-2215. All my power filters and power heads are from Hagen (Aqua-Clear).

 

[Rbishop]

Well you already have experience with a trickle filter so your really in the best position to decide if your friends is a great deal, sounds like it to me especially coming from a friend.

As far as canisters you also have some experiences with the Hot Mag which is actually quite a little engineering marvel. Because the Hot-mag uses a circumference style filter the ratio of the filter surface foot print is huge in relation to the Hot-mag's size. When it comes to pressurized enclosed or "canister filters" circumference style media filtering is the only way to go IMO and all you will see in industrial applications becasue of the efficiency. The magnum-C series is a stackable media style canister filter and while it is true it can hold allot of media volume, a stackable canister filter is only as effective as the area footprint of its fisrt basket becasue that is the limit of surface area water has to work with the given amount of pressure available and why IMO the C-series has not exactly been as effective or popular as claimed and prices have fallen on it significantly.

Canister and wet/dry are two completely different applications with benefits that really cant be compared as I even have a sump and love it for what it can do different then a canister. However if you go canister take a lesson from the designed of the Hot Mag and buy a circumference style media canister filter, the FX5. I got mine (2 ) new off ebay at different times for $230 shipping included during time ending bids. FX5 bids

I disagree with this, Gunner. Because it is stackable and holds lots of media, the total surface area of that media is what makes it great. Same as in any wet/dry or trickle setup. The input area only limits the amount of water flowing through at a given pressure. Each to his own.

Most the newer canisters are going bigger in a stackable format to allow customization of your media and allow for more media.

 

[Sploke]

Also, the water going through a canister, while true that it may not be as oxygenated as the surface area of the media in a trickle filter, should be PLENTY oxygenated to allow for aerobic bacteria to do their thing.

IME people need a lot less biomedia area than they really think is necessary to maintain an adequate bacterial colony. I have the equivalent biomedia of what would fit in two XP3s in my trickle filter, filtering about 500gal of water on a shared sump.

 

[nc0gnet0]

First time poster here so a little background. I have three tanks, a 200 gallon, a 125 gallon and a 75 gallon. Filter wise I have an FX5, An xp4, a eheim 2028 (pro2 series), and a homemade wet/dry. Along with these I also have a HOT magnum HOB as well as a magnum 350 with dual bio-wheels so I thought I could add a little bit to this conversation.


Of these filters my least favorite has to be the Eheim.....it is a leaky POS and I have since selaed the priming pump to fix this after tiring of changing the gaskets. I don't have any expierance with the newer models as I tend not to reward the maker of a POS with the purchase of more of thier new and improved products.

The XP4 is a great filter, my one knock on it is it tends to be the loudest of the canisters. If noise is not an issue this certainly is a filter too consider.

The fx5 is a monster and a great filter. But you need to have the space to use it and service it. I cycled this filter in two weeks with the help of some used media.

I must admit, i picked up the magnums second hand with the purchase of my 125 gallon tank and was quite impressed (and I thought the opposite would be true). While I would never recomend them as a stand alone filter even when outfitted with the bio-wheels, they are great for polishing water and occasional filtering with AC, Zeolite, phosphate remover, and the like.

But when all is said and done, nothing is going to beat a properly set-up wet/dry filter. I have seen a post or two regarding their lack of mechanical filtration, and this can easily be overcome by the addition of filter socks on the feeds and if you really want crystall clear water add some omni whole house canisters with 1 micron tubes on the returns. I must add that I have a dual feed system with two return pumps, caution must be taken if you only have a single feed/return. The drawbacks of such a system are once again space and being an open system, smell. Space was not an issue for me as a 30 gallon tank fits nicely below my predrilled 200 gallon tank and I overcame the smell with an easy to make AC air filter.

All this being said, for pure ammonia removal, the old school UGF can do a dam nice job as well (bio), but needs to be properly serviced (PITA). Water changes being pulled from beneath the plates helps matters.

 

[SubRosa]

One consideration not touched upon would be that at any time if you wish to upgrade the tank to a full-on plant set up with CO2 supplementation the wet dry becomes a liability for the very reason that makes it such a good biofilter, namely it's extremely efficient gas exchange. You will burn through CO2 like there's no tomorrow.
If this is something you're thinking about possibly doing a good canister is a smarter choice.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Interesting, I did not consider this as i do not have a planted tank (to do so would be useless my species of fish would destroy them). I am assuming this off gassing occurs as the water trickles over the bio-media, adding oxygen of removing carbon di-oxide. This would be a plus in a non-planted tank, but a hinderance in a planted tank.

 

[RDTigger]

Yes that is a true statement but not very accurate. Once an aquarium is established the biological bacteria that brakes down ammonia and nitrite are predominantly in the tank covering every bit of surface area including the sand to such an extant that the filter whether canister or sump (unless the sump is huge 50%) colonize bacteria to a much lesser degree that the difference in bio between comparable canister and sump are much less impacting then mechanical filtration.

In other words you can get away with swapping out a completely new unestablished filter on a cycled tank with little to no impact or a spike perhaps, but placing an established filter on a large un-cycled tank will have devastation toxic effects on inhabitants until that tanks comes up to reasonable speed on bacteria colonization.

So in my opinion mechanical filtration is the bigger more important part of any filters performance becasue only a filter can mechanically clean an aquarium which is about as necessary as bio filtration. While bio colonization/filtration happens everywhere in the system in all filters and to a much greater extent in the aquarium.

When it comes to my choice in filters, mechanical consideration which is in very short supply always takes precedence while bio colonization which is plentiful even without a "bio filter" must take 2nd place. That is why I have both canister and sump on my 244 tank but without a doubt its my FX5 with a little less bio but massive mechanical filtration that stomps the pedal to the floorboard when it comes to keeping that tank looking sparkling and great.

Gospel of Filtration...well said.

I too had the bio-filtration misconception but the mechanical filtration removes the particulates and waste from the water column that lead to an increase in bio-loads... as important as bio is, it is done in the filter AND the aquarium itself...while the mechanical filtration is limited to the filter...

My original tank was cloudy and tinted until i added a quick filter to my powerhead...almost immediately the water clarity improved and has remained crystal clear.

 

[CWO4GUNNER]

I disagree with this, Gunner. Because it is stackable and holds lots of media, the total surface area of that media is what makes it great. Same as in any wet/dry or trickle setup. The input area only limits the amount of water flowing through at a given pressure.

To some degree your correct if the only media in a stackable only filter is loose and porous to allow that flow your talking about to make it through that relatively (footprint to canister mass) small footprint to make it through. Place a polishing pad in that in that stack series and suddenly all the basket in line down stream start to suffer and flow drops off significantly.

So this is the paradox with "stackable only" type canister filters, keep it loose great flow poor mechanical filtration, install polishing media short lived great mechanical filtration flow and effectiveness diminishes.

Remember in a series (one behined the other) circuit filter, pressure will stay the same but flow will always diminish relative to its length. Whereas in a parallel circuit (access from multiple points) pressure drops but flow remains constant. In industrial applications you will never find except in extremely rear exceptions a stackable style filters but always-always circumference style filtration systems dominate for both their efficiency, effectiveness and long life between servicing.

One last example: A circumference filter is like a crowded subway car with all the doors missing. A stackable only filter is like a crowded subway car with only the back doors on the last car working. Which subway car do you think is going to be more efficient moving passengers?

In the scheme of things is this really that important ? No

 

[Rbishop]

Each area of a series filter suffers the same as in a stackable. No single generic exclusion can really be made and taken as gospel without knowing the specifics of each filter in question and the tank it is attached to.

Generic statements are the myth makers of this hobby.

A circimference filter is only as good as the intake point in the center then, by your theory. Let it rest..if it works for you fine.

 

[nc0gnet0]

And to add even more fuel to the fire, Trickle filters do not need to be bio-only. The instalation of filter socks over the downspouts can rival the mechanical filtration of most any canister, they are easy to change, can be washed and reused, and are much easier to change than a polishing pad in a cansiter filter. In a pinch they can also serve as a place to put AC, Zeolite, or even phosban.