Can't keep snails & shrimp alive

[myswtsins]

I just can not seem to keep my beloved aqua friends alive. It has been over 3 months since I have had a death in this tank, I really thought things were turning around. My berried females continue to die after holding eggs for awhile, see photo. This is the third time it has happened. (I do currently have at least 1 baby shrimp that has survived though) My apple snails have gone from about 50-60 newborns to only 2 marble sized snails (I expected some die off of course but not that much). Of course my MTS just keep on doing their thing though cause they are indestructible!

Now some facts about the tank.
-#1 thing is that all the water in my house is put through a water softener (which may be the problem but if it was wouldn't it kill everything?)
- 10gal tank setup for 6 months, Ph 8.0, Ammonia & nitrites - 0, nitrates between 5-10, no ferts or CO2 added
- inhabitants are RCS, MTS, apple snails & 6 ember tetras....algae wafers & shrimp pellets for feeding (flake for embers)
- I DO have a recent planaria population despite my light feedings, I believe they hiked in with some plants. (some are white and some are pink/red????, never seen red ones) All my research indicates they are not harmful but I still would like to rid the tank of them, suggestions?

I did have a couple apple snails live, grow & reproduce for nearly a year using all the same methods. No one seems to know the answer to the recent deaths but I figured I would ask one more time before selling everything off for the sake of the shrimp/snails/fish.

 

[bluekrissyspike]

is the tanks second hand or have you ever used that blue or green ick stuff in the tank? i'm not sure which one it is but there is at least one medication that gets absorbed into the silicon and slowly leaches back out and is toxic to inverts. just a thought. is there a reason why you are not using regular declorinated tap water?

 

[myswtsins]

Thanks for your response. The tank was new when setup & I have never used any meds in the tank.

All the water in my house is ran through the softener because we have an OLD shallow well and a very high iron content (among other things). But technically I do use dechlorinated tap water, it just goes through an extra step before coming out my tap (and of course there is no chlorine added to it).

 

[pik01]

im sorry to hear that myswtsins =/ What is your maintenance and feeding schedule? Those ember tetras are eating a fair amount of baby shrimp. Almost any fish would dampen the most robust of shrimp colonies. Maybe you should consider separating them from the shrimp and snails?

Also I've never reared baby brigs before but I hear that mass die-offs are difficult to avoid and sometimes happen without warning.

 

[myswtsins]

Thanks for your condolences pik01. I do a weekly 20-30% water change. Feeding has varied (as I tried to increase breeding and/or decrease planaria). They have gotten anything from the smallest piece of an algae wafer once a day to a whole algae wafer a day or shrimp pellet. The tetras get the tiniest pinch of flake once a day 6 days a week, that has not changed.

*EDIT*You also mentioned it being the embers in my last post. The embers were not added until 4 months after the shrimp and they were not producing then. Having babies survive is not my issue though, having the berried females live through the eggs hatching is the problem here. I do know the embers will eat some of the babies even though they have extremely small mouths but the embers have been recommended to me by 3 big shrimp/fish "experts" on this site so I am not concerned about them. I really do appreciate your concern though.

 

[shawnhu]

I believe that berried females are more stressed, and less mobile that non-berried. I would keep an eye on what might be attacking the shrimp. Planaria has been linked to shrimp deaths in some articles, they emit a chemical that is lethal to shrimp. I do not have the link handy. I believe that a small population of fry would make short of the planaria problem.

 

[pik01]

ugh, sorry about that, sometimes my addled brain just gets away from me lol. At least I'm being consistent with the tetras How many shrimp do you think you have? in a mature tank like yours there is plenty for the shrimp to eat and I think small hunks of algae wafer each day might still be too much, let alone and entire wafer. Those algae wafers are inherently messy so that could be where the planaria are coming from. How often do you gravel vac? (I feel like I might have said this before as well >.<)

As for the ember tetras, I also talked to jinkzy (I'm assuming she's one of the three you're hinting at ^^) and I'm eventually gonna try them with shrimp as well. I just wanted to try and eliminate as many mystery factors as possible, you know?

Depending on the number of shrimp you have, I think the prime suspect is over feeding.

 

[pik01]

I believe that berried females are more stressed, and less mobile that non-berried. I would keep an eye on what might be attacking the shrimp. Planaria has been linked to shrimp deaths in some articles, they emit a chemical that is lethal to shrimp. I do not have the link handy. I believe that a small population of fry would make short of the planaria problem.

hmm, planaria deadly to shrimp? I haven't heard that one before, I gotta look into that. Big hydra, yeah, but planaria? I would have thought that the embers would keep the planaria numbers down. I have 3 adult and 5 juvenile Endlers' in with my cherry shrimp and they went to town on the planaria. The Endlers' have only been in my tank for about 2-3 weeks and before that I had a healthy population of planaria squiggling about but I never saw a dent in the cherry shrimp population. The Endlers' do snack on baby shrimp but not nearly enough to stop the shrimp population growth.

edit: i gotta learn to hit edit instead of just reply ><

 

[myswtsins]

The planaria showed up after the embers so the embers certainly are not eating the planaria. I will have to look into deadly planaria a little more, I really want them gone but need to find a invert safe solution.

I watch this tank for quite some time most nights and no one ever seems to bother the shrimp. Only 1 time did I see an ember go after a baby shrimp but once the embers realized it was not a bit of food it lost interest.

For the most part they only get a small piece of wafer (a whole wafer was only tried for a very short time). The shrimp don't usually show too much interest in the wafers anyways, the wafers are more for the snails really, although the embers love them too! There is only about 15-20 shrimp in the tank. And I gravel vac at every water change but not deeply in most areas.

Yes, Jinkz was one of the three. It was a great suggestion too cause they have so very pretty! I had a berried female die before the embers were even added so I really don't think they are the cause but there was no planaria at that time either so who the heck knows! (my first batch of 15 shrimp didn't seem to thrive that well anyways, the second batch is when they started breeding) I can definitely try separating the embers but I need to rid the tank of the planaria too to make it an effective elimination of factors.

 

[pik01]

for 15-20 shrimp an algae wafer is too much. I think your shrimp are showing some classic signs of over feeding. Mysterious deaths in an established tank with good parameters, lack of interest in food, do they seem sluggish to you? They should be constantly grazing and picking at things. Overfeeding is just so easy to do, and by the time you test your water, the mini spike from the uneaten food will have come and gone. Those mini spikes are slow killers and may take days to finally take your shrimp. It may seem like they are eating but it could very well be that they are only shredding the food then leaving it in the substrate. With my first 15 I fed a single crab cuisine pellet every other day and even when I gave them 1/8 of an algae wafer I ended up basting out most of it after a few hours. Sometimes I went 2 or 3 days without feeding and they were fine. They won't starve.

Your maintenance routine seems fine, do any of your foods have copper in it? I've read here and there that copper proteinate and copper sulfate are supposed to be okay in trace amounts, but I don't feed those foods just to be on the safe side.

I just suspect that you're over-feeding. Please don't take that as an insult to you, it really isn't. I'm still trying to fight the notion of food = love for my critters. Try feeding less and see if there's an improvement. They should be stampeding to the food when you drop it in.

I hope you keep at this, we've all had our share of frustrations when it comes to caring for our animals and we're here to help you through it. It will be all the sweeter in the end when you do get it right

edit: Did a little digging about the deadly planaria bit: google shot me right back to good ole AC. This thread on getting rid of planaria hints at some debate about whether or not planaria are harmful to shrimp/fish. The consensus seems to be that in massive quantities they might harm your animals, but they should be rather harmless in low amounts. Oh, and in case you're smashing any planaria you see, it would be better to siphon them out because 1 sliced planaria will become 2 planaria...