Cardinal tetra losses

oscaremmy

Keeper of the Frogdog
Feb 27, 2008
379
0
0
East Central Indiana, USA
2 days ago, I bought 8 cardinal tetras, each about 1/2 inch long from a pretty good lfs. My journey home took about 3.5 hours; the fish were double poly bagged, plus they were inside two thick brown paper bags. No excessive heat or cold during the journey.

Arrived home and transferred the fish to my acclimatization container (largish acrylic container that hooks onto the tank lip to allow gradual water change.

1 fish died almost immediately it came out of the bag.

Acclimatized by adding a cup of tank water every 15 minutes. 45 minutes later, released fish into the tank.

2 fish died that night, found next morning, with no signs of injury.

3 fish died in the next 12 hours.

1 was dead this morning.

1 left alive and looking well.

Dead fish exhibited signs of distress - rapid respiration was typical prior to death.

Tankmates: 2 small peppered corydoras, 3 very small bronze corydoras, 2 1.5 inch bloodfin tetras.

Tank: 10g Established March 2008. 10 gallon. Water - pH 7.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 10, Hardness 6

Planted. Seachem flourish ferts dosed weekly. Bogwood, filter sand, peat base. Temperature 78F

I will be able to get replacement fish free of charge, but I am at a loss as to why these fish died so quickly. I telephoned the lfs after the first couple died and was told cardinals travel/transfer badly. I am very sad to lose so many lovely fish in the space of 48 hours.

Even though water parameters should have been nearly ideal for cardinals, I did a 20% water change after the initial losses, using RO water with Prime added.

Any ideas what might have killed these fish? Stress from travel?:confused:

Most cardinals come from the wild, which makes me even more disappointed in their fate. The remaining cardinal appears very healthy. The lfs will give me more fish free of charge, but I am at a loss to 'correct' anything since I can find nothing wrong with the tank setup or the water quality.

These were my first losses from this tank.
 
The long time in the bag gave a chance for poisons to build very high in the shipping water. When you released the water from the bag you added oxygen back into the water and the fish tried to become more active, it also released the CO2 from the water and let the pH jump up. The point is there is a lot going on in the water that can harm the fish. The pH swing can even move ammonium to ammonia (less poisonous to more poisonous). At that point if you see stress in the fish its best to ignore acclimating since the fish won't live long in the water they are in. If the temperature is close, do just remove one fish directly to the new tank. If it starts to look better than the ones in the bag, move them all. Usually a slow acclimation is the best approach but sometimes your transport water has deteriorated so much its better to just take your chances with no acclimation. The plop and drop method is seldom your best choice but in some circumstances its the only choice. The reason to try one first is to make sure you haven't misread the fish's state in the bag water.
 
I have heard different opinions but in my experience, cardinals are VERY sensitive fish. I bought 7 from a LFS just 3 minutes from my house and lost 4 within 12 hours. I ended up taking the rest back and getting Neons instead. All 15 of my neons are still doing great 17 days later! Cardinals are very pretty fish but Neons are much easier to keep alive, IMO! I have read that the difference is that Cardinals won't breed in captivity so they are all caught wild and then have a LONG trip to your LFS where they are already stressed and probably scared (transition from the Amazon river to a tank must be scary!). Neons are usually tank raised and therefore already acclimated to tank life.
 
Thanks for the advice OldMan47 and CSmith1004...my last remaining cardinal is doing great...go figure. If I can get some from a closer lfs I might try again, but if that fails, I'll look into neons as csmith1004 suggests. Pity though, because the cardinals are so stunning color-wise.
 
The long time in the bag gave a chance for poisons to build very high in the shipping water. When you released the water from the bag you added oxygen back into the water and the fish tried to become more active, it also released the CO2 from the water and let the pH jump up. The point is there is a lot going on in the water that can harm the fish. The pH swing can even move ammonium to ammonia (less poisonous to more poisonous). At that point if you see stress in the fish its best to ignore acclimating since the fish won't live long in the water they are in. If the temperature is close, do just remove one fish directly to the new tank. If it starts to look better than the ones in the bag, move them all. Usually a slow acclimation is the best approach but sometimes your transport water has deteriorated so much its better to just take your chances with no acclimation. The plop and drop method is seldom your best choice but in some circumstances its the only choice. The reason to try one first is to make sure you haven't misread the fish's state in the bag water.

I think putting 8 cardinals into one bag is asking for trouble...I'll mention that when I go back for my credit. I think you could be right about the toxin build up, the rest being down to stressed fish finally giving up the ghost.
 
Sounds perfectly normal to me for the cardinals and neons. They don't take transport well.

You don't plan on putting them in a QT first?
 
I have no QT - have never used one - I understand the benefits, but every time I get a tank, I seem to populate it 'permanently.' QT is a good idea, though. I might be able to set up a simple QT tank in the basement (there's no more room in the house with 5 tanks running there already) - just a simple 10g with filter, heater and hood. Have to wait until I get more funds for that.
 
Yep...a common issue....a QT starts to get used permanently...:grinyes:
 
Agree with Rb, sounds like my typical experiences with cardinals. Unfortunate.
 
you could take a large rubber maid type container and ask the shop to fill it up with water so will have a larger water volume or failing that you could ask for them to be bagged 2 to a bag and try to open the bags every once and a while or get a battery powered air pump and dump the fish in a container
 
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