Central Sump Filtration

[Sumpin'fishy]

I am really wanting to get into some breeding with Apistos and Rams, maybe some other small fish, too! I will be setting up a 6 foot self-built wood aquarium stand/shelving unit for 3 levels of 6 10 gallon tanks all linked together. The bottom of the rack will have one 20 gallon tank and the sump (some type of "rubbermaid-style" container or a 40 gallon breeder tank). I plan to hook each level of tanks together with pvc pipe syphons (well below water level) and use overflow boxes to drain each level down to the next level, finally ending in the sump. I will use sponges to keep fish from changing tanks via syphon tubes, etc. It will end up being a 200 gallons worth of active tanks all linked together (not counting the sump itself).

I am trying to decide on filtration. I plan to heavily use plants but will not be using CO2 injection. I will use my well water which is about 0.6 KH, and just under 6.0 pH. I will probably have to stick with moderate lighting and dose ferts minimally without adding CO2. I know most people don't decorate their tanks when dedicated to breeding fish, but I want a decent looking setup also. The wood rack will be nicely done and the tanks all aquascaped separately (nature/bio-tope style).

I was looking at the Pentair Aquatics "Lifeguard" filtration system. Anyone have experience with it? Would I be better served with another type of filtration? I was thinking of around 500 to 600gph pump turnover. Would this be too much for breeding 10 gallon tanks? remember that they are all linked together. I just don't see the efficiency of having a separate bubble filter in each tank. I would also lose the small amount of CO2 I want to retain in the water. Would adding 2 or 3 good canisters to my sump do the job better? Should I still worry about adding air stones to some of the tanks? Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[RTR]

If you are building a manifold at the top tier to distribute water to each of those six tanks, then each of those drops to the tank directly below it, with the third tier dropping to the sump, that is 80-100 gallons and hour through each tank. To me that seems excessive in a ten. You will really need to deal with current breaks on the water input to the top tier. I assume you will have some sort of valves to control the feed from the manifold to each vertical column of tanks?

I would at least consider a trickle filter or W/D rather than the closed multistage filtration of the Lifeguard modules.

 

[Sumpin'fishy]

The setup I have planned will not have "columns" like many others have talked about. I will have one return tube, with a ball joint to adjust flow, leading to ONE tank and their will be "U" tubes connecting the tanks via syphon on the top row (horizontally). I will have an overflow box on the last tank spilling water (through tubes) to the second level, which will mimic the top level. This will end, again, in an overflow box leading to the sump level. I have decided to stick with a smaller, more manageable 4 foot setup. 4 different 10 gals on top, 4 one second level, and a 40 gal (or rubbermaid) sump. Is a Mag Drive 500gph pump and a ball joint sufficient to get a decent, yet not too fast of a current through the system? Should I step down to about a 300gph pump? Use my Powerhead (Hagen 402)?

A Wet/Dry will rid my system of the little bit of CO2 it might be able to scrounge without injecting it. The water will flow through all the tanks, into the sump and back up to the tanks again. The Sump will be filtered with the Lifeguard or other system as if it were all by itself. This way I can use the high speed of the pump to circulate water from the sump through the filtration unit and back again into it without having a torrential current moving water around all my tanks. Remember also, that I plan to heavily stock with plants. Even the Sump will be planted (probably with grow-out plants and plants not yet used in setups.)

Would this all be easier to just use an AC500 and a Filstar XP-3 filter on the sump? There will only be one breeding "group" in each tank and then the fry that are growing out.

 

[RTR]

I would call that a "circulating range" rather than a central system, and for me the flow will be many times too great for the tens. I have triple 1 1/2" siphons connecting fewer and larger tanks in my circulating range off the central system at much lower flow.

You might want to real-world test some flows at the operating head you will have and make your decisions based on those tests.

Wet/drys with covered towers do not blow off significant CO2 in practice. So I have found with my setups, and Tom Barr agrees with that finding. Open-topped towers will blow off CO2.

 

[carpguy]

If you aren't injecting CO2 I'd think you'd be so close to ambient that you wouldn't really be shedding CO2 (returning to ambient). This is just a thought: I defer to anyone who actually knows what they're talking about

 

[RTR]

You could well be right carpguy, but that is something you cannot really predict without testing on the established setup - all systems are too different to generalize other than at very high level.

 

[Sumpin'fishy]

Excellent points, gentlemen! I may take another look at wet/dry's after all. What kind of flow do you think would be a good "starting point"? I have to buy (order) the pump online, so I don't want to buy one that would be grossly off-range, either low or high. Does 300gph sound pretty high still? Would my 402 Powerhead (270 gph) generate enough flow you think? They aren't usually used with any kind of head pressure.

Man, it's starting to sound like the best way to get the results I'm looking for would be to get separate bubble filters for each tank and use syphons to connnect only the tanks on the same level. Then use a Powerhead to circulate the water between the tanks on the same level only. Each level could therefore have different water chemistry, as needed. I'm gonna take this thing back to the drawing board and see what I come up with. Thanks alot for all the input. It's given me some neat ideas.

I think it's taken me over 45 minutes to write this post with all the looking up parts and ideas roaming around in my head.

 

[RTR]

I use 402s and 802s to lift water from some of my sumps to the associated display, but I have forgotten the output at the heads I have. You cannot calculate based on zero head output. Most of the companys do have flow loss at various heads plotted out for you. See if you can get those for the pumps you might use. I use 402, 802, and several different Eheim hobby pumps, and Mag drives.

 

[somefinnfishy]

I have done a few circulating ranges with good sucsess but would never do one that large (#of tanks)for a breeding system.
To many hormones and waste assosiated with spawning takes diff temps ph lighting sometimes to spark the eggs out.Are you going to submit other fish in the system plus last weeks fry.Trying to feed fry in a tank with any flow is hard let alone with a overflow setup.Next concern do you realy want to treat all the tanks with meds because the fry got a little ich. One more prob I see comming a sponge fine enough to stop those little fry WILL clog fast then you get the dry fish wet floor syndrome.
I would setup a air system with a nice regenitive blower and use 2 small ati hydro sponges in each tank.
Or do a range system for each row with a 10g sump on the end of each row just build the stand with like a 4-6 inch drop for each row then use a ugf plate and power head in the "sump" (the ugf keeps the power haed in place and helps from cloging the intake)over the ugf I place cut to fit filter pad media (your choise) then a layer of floss.This set up is easy giveas you three diff water coulums to play with also almost no head to deal with.
Dont want to shoot you vision down but they are right play with u-tubes and some tens and diff types of pumps and head heights before you commit to your stand or sump design(real world exp)

 

[RTR]

Just how on earth could Ich get into the system? False alarm. I have not had any Ich in my systems in >15 years and doubt that I ever will. Have you heard about QT?

My assumption was that the poster is aware of hormones and that any breeding setup does best with high-volume water changes - whether linked into a central system or not.

The projected tank sizes are insufficient for rearing fry IME, and flow issues have been have raised previously.