Chloride a Problem?????

I posted about chloride on Toms forum almost two weeks ago but nobody has replied that's why I started googling around trying to find answers. Based on what I found, it does seem that elevated Cl can have a negative effect on plants. However I'm sure that anything will be bad for plants if dosed in silly extreme quantities. This is where I get stuck because I can't find anything on what levels they are talknig about. How much Cl is going too far?

My community tank was sitting at a TDS of 840ppm largely due to CaCl2. Seems a bit high for a typical planted tank.
 
Wow! That does seem high - what is the tap TDS? I thoight that you folks had very light water?
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RTR
This is what leads us to never quit tinkering, The tap water is soft, We have ahd to add calcium and magnesium to make our plants grow, and we have gone way beyond anything that anyone else seems to need. If either of us tries to reduce calcium or magnesium our plants go stupid rapidly. I do not believe that my Ca and Mg should ahve to be as high as they are, but any reduction just kills us. I have not measured my tank TDS levels yet (probably will tomorrow when I meet up with John. I know the tap is low and John will probably get back with numbers.

Sme time during the val and hardness threads it occurred to me that our water after we dose is far far above the levels that most people have including the numbers you have listed. Mine clims a little during the week because I mixed too much Arabonite into my substrate, but that is slowly going away.

The only thing so far that has helped was the recent switch from CaCl to a form of calcium that does not add chloride. Observation would tend to back up the theory but then I've been caught in the hasty conclusion trap more than once.
Dave
 
Tapwater TDS varies. I've measured it as high as 310ppm and as low as 180ppm. Presumably the fluctuations are due to our NO3 and PO4 levels which can spike or drop off from time to time.

Anyway I just measured the tapwater at 236ppm. I also tested my RO/DI water at 4ppm.
 
What percentage of CaCl2 is chloride?

Have you tried figuring out how much is actually in your tank? It has to have a balancing point, like an unplanted tank does with NO3.

If you add 20 ppm of chloride then do a 50% pwc it will be 10 ppm + the 20 ppm you add for 30 ppm. Then pwc, 15 ppm + 20 ppm is 35 ppm etc.

Thats if chloride isn't used at all by plants. You would think this topic would be touched on in the forums that are just plant releated if its that relevant. I'm going to do some searching. I'll link anything I find.
 
I would think that excessive chloride would cause problems and your recent experiments seem to back it us. Give the Calcium Nitrate a shot. The reason equilibrium is a pain to dissolve is due to the solubility of calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate is highly insoluble and likes to precipitate out of the water column very easily. Anyone ever have lime deposits in their kettles or hard water spots. Blame that on the calcium carbonate.
 
Let me know what happens, I am in the same boat as Dave and John and have been using CaCl.

Although I do think that (based on my readings) that too much K can cause plants to show symptoms of ca deficiency, it limits the plants ability to uptake ca.

The chloride stuff is interesting and deserves to be investigated further.

Dave and John, if you have not placed your order with Gregg yet, let me know and I'll split the shipping as I need the booster too.
 
JHJ,
I am trying to find a time to meet up with John tonight, My order is in. If you want to get together Also I can share enough of my new chemicals for all of us to test things and then we can re-order and balance it out later. I will say at this point that I am fairly convinced we are chasing the right animal this time. Every plant I have is doing better than they ever have before. I am still at very high hardness levels through dosing, but really the only factor I've changed is the Cl additions. The next step will be to start regulating my hardness levels back and watch the plants. In the past every time John or I dropped levels we saw a negative reaction.

I ran the K theory past this board, and was told emphatically that K would not block calcium. You can see Tom Barrs Response here: http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65367&highlight=water+hardness+observations

The very last three responses deal with not only the K but the Ca idea. Tom Is about as infallable as any source I've found, and plants are his specialty.
dave
 
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