SoCalSunset said:
Harlock, I know I've seen you post before about ph not being too important, and I honestly think it's a little irresponsible coming from an enthusiast that seem relatively seasoned and knowledgeable.
One of the fish listed in his original post were discus. I only have one baby discus in my care, so I am by no means an expert on the fish, but I'm relatively sure that if a discus were to be adapted to a more alkaline ph, it wouldn't live the quality life it would under the correct water parameters. Aren't discus known for being rather fragile?
Also, I think it's more important to find tankmates that are compatible rather than adaptable with one another. I used to live in the antelope valley where the water is very alkaline and hard, and the LFS always kept malaysian driftwood and crushed coral substrates in the tanks that had fish which would benefit from either a more acidic, or alkaline ph.
Just some thoughts,
Serg
Sorry if facts are offensive. The truth is, and I am quoting RTR here, "Fish can't read pH". Discus are known for being fragile. I also know they can be adapted. Just like, rams, for instance. Also known as being picky about water conditions etc. Guess what? People are breeding them in pH 7.8. Might I add, with fertile eggs and hatching fry. I think seeing long, healthy lives with normal behaviors such as breeding successfully is more indicative than something you read on some web site, don't you, Serg? Results speak volumes.
You know what I find little irresponsible? Perpetuating myths that force people away from owning fish they truly love and can care for or forcing them into expensive and dangerous means of trying to control things like pH. Yes, discus are sensitive to water conditions. Also true: you can acclimate them and so long as you keep the water close to source after adaptation, no harm comes to the fish. I know people in my town using the same 7.8 pH, 120 KH and 420 GH water as me breeding angels, keeping discus, breeding rams... all without doing crazy things like dumping phophates in the water to control pH. Again, I prefer to debunk the myths rather than perpetuate them and force certain people away from a part of the hobby they might otherwise enjoy.
Edit: Wow, didn't mean to sound as harsh as I did. I responded in kind, using some of the same phrases you did, Serg. That's just my posting style. Anyway, I am not shooting for consensus or anything. I am here to learn like anyone else. People have different experiences. That's why they come frmo different angles. At any rate, so far in all of my research I have learned that the vast majority of fish need stable rather than "ideal" pH. This isn't to say those that strive to keep fish in an "ideal" pH are bad or doing it wrong. I think it very commendable that they care so much for their fish. However, knowing that more and more species are being bred in captivity everyday and being acclimated to florida fish farms or (and RTR, please don't hurt me) southeast asian fish farms everyday, what is ideal will soon become a rather muddled issue. What is ideal for a 3rd generation captive bred tetra raised in Flroida? I'd hazard a guess that it's not Amazonian water anymore. My point is that fih are adaptable. The "ideal" mark is blurred every day with every new spawn. I have a feeling evidence will bear me out, and already is, which is why I posted in the first place. If you find that irresponsible, I am glad you posted with your view of things backed up with fact and evidence. I may be on the cusp of a different style, I don't know, but again, I really feel strongly about challenging the "old thinking" behind fish keeping with new science. After all, 15 years ago fishless cycling was something akin to blasphemy in many fish cricles. Now, it is slowly catching on in large part due to websites like this one and the proliferation of the internet.
