Co2 Natural Plant System
- Thread starter ADAMHANK
- Start date
That system is just a glorified DIY system. Tweaked here and there to make it last longer than the standard DIY mixtures. If you don't want to try your hand at DIYing, or you just have some extra cash to spend, then go for it. Looks like a decent system to me. However, I don't think it will work too well for larger tanks. It may improve things, but it will never measure up to a pressurized system. IMHO, once you get into the 30+ gallon range, systems such as yeast generators (ie. DIY, and the natural co2 system) just aren't effective enough. You need multiple bottles (or units) in order to keep CO2 concentrations at 15-20ppm. You also need to buy refills. They may be inexpensive, but it will add up over time. I'm running a pressurized system on my 70 gallon tank. I will never go back to DIY ever again. The tank lasts for at least 4 months (perhaps more, but I was fiddling with it, and messed up in the initial stages of experimentation). Refills cost me 9.50 CDN. Big Al's sells the refills for almost 9 dollars. You can do the math =).
HTH
-Richer
HTH
-Richer
Hi, all,
Richer, I don't know if you've been following my other post ("pH over 7.8!"--on the General Freshwater forum), but I've been having major heartache over trying to lower my pH. I've tried everything, it's all documented there. It looks like the large $$$$ for pressurized CO2 might be the only thing I can do, besides coming up with a whole lot of deionized water to dilute my 7.8 tapwater--on an ongoing basis.
My question (besides how much does the pressurized system cost!?) is what was your tap pH before you started using pressurized CO2? Mine is buffered out of the tap at KH 18 (GH 32), and I'm wondering if I would have to run so much pressurized CO2 to keep up with that that it would not be cost effective, even if I spent the big bucks for the pressurized setup. Thoughts? ADVICE?! Anyone ... and Richer, if you have time, take a look at that other thread. Your input has helped me bigtime in the past.
-- Pat
Richer, I don't know if you've been following my other post ("pH over 7.8!"--on the General Freshwater forum), but I've been having major heartache over trying to lower my pH. I've tried everything, it's all documented there. It looks like the large $$$$ for pressurized CO2 might be the only thing I can do, besides coming up with a whole lot of deionized water to dilute my 7.8 tapwater--on an ongoing basis.
My question (besides how much does the pressurized system cost!?) is what was your tap pH before you started using pressurized CO2? Mine is buffered out of the tap at KH 18 (GH 32), and I'm wondering if I would have to run so much pressurized CO2 to keep up with that that it would not be cost effective, even if I spent the big bucks for the pressurized setup. Thoughts? ADVICE?! Anyone ... and Richer, if you have time, take a look at that other thread. Your input has helped me bigtime in the past.
-- Pat
Wooops, did I just "hijack" a thread? I didn't mean to. I'd appreciate any input anybody's got, including the Natural Aquarium thingie. But from reading, it looks like that'd be too small for my 38-gal tank.
-- Pat
-- Pat
I think average costs for a co2 system would be:
$75.00 - 5 lb tank
$50.00 - dual gauge regulator
$25.00 - good needle valve
$10-15 per refill (6 months avg)
my co2 dropped my ph from 8.0- ~6.7 but my KH is only 3
$75.00 - 5 lb tank
$50.00 - dual gauge regulator
$25.00 - good needle valve
$10-15 per refill (6 months avg)
my co2 dropped my ph from 8.0- ~6.7 but my KH is only 3
I agreed. That's why I've used it in my 20G cory tank (which fits Hagen's recommendation). Compared to daily administration of Seachem Excel, this system is more cost-effective in the long run for me. Actually, there are 3 packs in each "refill pack" (CAN$=8.99), and each pack can last approximately 3-4 weeks.
krucialkey560,
I got it from Big Al for CAN$39.99.
Although it is a glorified DIY yeast system, I should support it I think since Hagen is promoting CO2 and plants finally.
There will always be folks that want to spend 25$ vs making something for less than a 1$.
If folks are claiming to be cheap as a reason to get one, why not go all the way here?
There must be 50 sites detailing how to make these.
Danger of blowing up? Well, for those that try to block the flow of gas from a DIY set up, any pressurized device will cause an issue there. Are you scared to remove a beer cap? That's about the danger level here. A rigid juice bottle works super and never "blows up" nor collapses.
A powerhead is a better device for dissolving the CO2 and easier to control.
Sugar and yeast are easy to get any supermarket.
As far as Gas tank CO2: I use about 10lbs on 175 gallons worth of tank volume per year. Cost for refill: 8$.
Labor involved: 1 minute per year. Results in better plant growth and enough CO2 for the plants.
You never hear of folks selling their CO2 gas tanks, and for good reason.
Now I'll itemize the CO2 gas tank vs the Yeast for a 75 gallon tank.
Reg: 53$ www.kegworks.com
Needlevalve: Clippard: 10.91$
Gas tank: used 10lb from Fire extingusher company: 40$ but most avergae about 75$.
Tubing etc about 2$.
Reactor powerhead: 45$
Total: 150-190$
Refill cost: 10$ per year.
Labor: virtually none
Yeast system for a 75 gallon tank:
You'll need at least 3 of these, 75$
Supplies: sugar and yeast: change every 2-3 weeks to keep enough CO2 in the tank x 3........
Labor, 5-10 minutes every few weeks.
Problems: "Gee I forgot to change the yeast brew" => poor CO2 levels => algae BBA, GW etc. A great deal more labor.
How much do you pay yourself for "doing the dishes" changing these bottles, remembering to rechange them, fiddling with them not having enough CO2 most of the time etc? Less plant growth, more hassle, folks blaming things of PO4 instead of CO2.
I hear the same every week concerning algae. One of the first thing I ask often: do you have DIY yeast CO2?
Adding some CO2 vs none will increase plant growth a good deal.
But adding the correct amount is not simple using Yeast and requires some work, technique and keeping the brew fresh. I did it for 10 years.
One of the best things folks can do: get gas tanks for CO2.
But systems like this and DIY are great since folks can see that it really improves plant growth.
We can squawk all day on the net but when 20 million aquarist see the ad in various mag's or at the LFS, the marketing power really helps send the message out about CO2.
That helps the hobby in general.
Thrifty folks will figure out ways to save their $ later etc.
If you plan on more than one tank or want a larger tank, then gas tanks quickly become much more manageable both on the wallet/purse and the aquarist. For a 20 gallon tank or two and that's all you plan on having, DIY is the way to go.
Regards,
Tom Barr
There will always be folks that want to spend 25$ vs making something for less than a 1$.
If folks are claiming to be cheap as a reason to get one, why not go all the way here?
There must be 50 sites detailing how to make these.
Danger of blowing up? Well, for those that try to block the flow of gas from a DIY set up, any pressurized device will cause an issue there. Are you scared to remove a beer cap? That's about the danger level here. A rigid juice bottle works super and never "blows up" nor collapses.
A powerhead is a better device for dissolving the CO2 and easier to control.
Sugar and yeast are easy to get any supermarket.
As far as Gas tank CO2: I use about 10lbs on 175 gallons worth of tank volume per year. Cost for refill: 8$.
Labor involved: 1 minute per year. Results in better plant growth and enough CO2 for the plants.
You never hear of folks selling their CO2 gas tanks, and for good reason.
Now I'll itemize the CO2 gas tank vs the Yeast for a 75 gallon tank.
Reg: 53$ www.kegworks.com
Needlevalve: Clippard: 10.91$
Gas tank: used 10lb from Fire extingusher company: 40$ but most avergae about 75$.
Tubing etc about 2$.
Reactor powerhead: 45$
Total: 150-190$
Refill cost: 10$ per year.
Labor: virtually none
Yeast system for a 75 gallon tank:
You'll need at least 3 of these, 75$
Supplies: sugar and yeast: change every 2-3 weeks to keep enough CO2 in the tank x 3........
Labor, 5-10 minutes every few weeks.
Problems: "Gee I forgot to change the yeast brew" => poor CO2 levels => algae BBA, GW etc. A great deal more labor.
How much do you pay yourself for "doing the dishes" changing these bottles, remembering to rechange them, fiddling with them not having enough CO2 most of the time etc? Less plant growth, more hassle, folks blaming things of PO4 instead of CO2.
I hear the same every week concerning algae. One of the first thing I ask often: do you have DIY yeast CO2?
Adding some CO2 vs none will increase plant growth a good deal.
But adding the correct amount is not simple using Yeast and requires some work, technique and keeping the brew fresh. I did it for 10 years.
One of the best things folks can do: get gas tanks for CO2.
But systems like this and DIY are great since folks can see that it really improves plant growth.
We can squawk all day on the net but when 20 million aquarist see the ad in various mag's or at the LFS, the marketing power really helps send the message out about CO2.
That helps the hobby in general.
Thrifty folks will figure out ways to save their $ later etc.
If you plan on more than one tank or want a larger tank, then gas tanks quickly become much more manageable both on the wallet/purse and the aquarist. For a 20 gallon tank or two and that's all you plan on having, DIY is the way to go.
Regards,
Tom Barr
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Cichlid Woman - yes, you did hijack this thread, but I'll answer your question anyways =).
If you spring for a pressurized CO2 system, then yes, it will lower your pH (with the proper dissolving techniques). However, with such a high pH, you won't get a chance to lower your pH much further than about 7.5 (more or less) before the CO2 concentrations start to get toxic for the fish.
My tank water has a pH of about 8 (as far as I can tell from the color charts), with a KH varying from 7-9. After CO2 injection, my pH usually hovers at around 7.
If I am reading what you say correctly, with a KH of 18, and pH of 7.8 you should have a slightly higher than average CO2 concentration compared to non-injected tanks. Are you using anything else to lower your pH?
HTH
-Richer
If you spring for a pressurized CO2 system, then yes, it will lower your pH (with the proper dissolving techniques). However, with such a high pH, you won't get a chance to lower your pH much further than about 7.5 (more or less) before the CO2 concentrations start to get toxic for the fish.
My tank water has a pH of about 8 (as far as I can tell from the color charts), with a KH varying from 7-9. After CO2 injection, my pH usually hovers at around 7.
If I am reading what you say correctly, with a KH of 18, and pH of 7.8 you should have a slightly higher than average CO2 concentration compared to non-injected tanks. Are you using anything else to lower your pH?
HTH
-Richer
Not at the moment--although there are probably still traces of sodium biphosphate in there.
I'm curious about what you said--the KH of 18 and pH 7.8 means I might have higher than average concentrations of CO2 in there? Do you think it's the trace sodium biphosphate that's still in there from when I tried that method a week or so ago?
-- Pat
I'm curious about what you said--the KH of 18 and pH 7.8 means I might have higher than average concentrations of CO2 in there? Do you think it's the trace sodium biphosphate that's still in there from when I tried that method a week or so ago?
-- Pat
