CO2 Questions (new setup)

Hmmm.. Just found this:

http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html

"Understand that decorations such as driftwood, bogwood, limestone, filtering with peat, etc. will affect the kH and pH of the aquarium"

Now everyone has an opionion, so I will review more information on that. I rotate 2-3 pouches of peat per month in my fluvals. PH is 6.4 and where I want it, but if it is affecting KH, then I will use CO2 to do so and just bag the black water look I guess...

AND... right from the web site (the product I use):

"Fluval Peat Granular is a select granular peat ideal for use in freshwater aquariums. This concentrated, safe, natural filter media provides optimal water conditions for many species of fish originating from specific tropical environments. Many species of fish can benefit from the compounds found in Fluval Peat Granular. Examples include species of South American Cichlids (Angelfish, Discus, Apistogramma etc.), Corydoras Catfish, Tetras, Gouramis and Barbs. Fluval Peat Granular releases beneficial elements and will contribute to vibrant colors, enhanced breeding success, and superior conditions for a variety of fish species that thrive in soft acidic water. It is recommended to verify the desired pH and KH levels by testing with Nutrafin pH and KH test kits on a regular basis. Fluval Peat Granular is a concentrated filter media and will initially reduce pH and KH levels at a quicker rate than fibrous peat. The recommended KH range is 50 to 120 mg/L (approx. 3 to 7 dKH to support safe, stable pH levels) for proper maintenance of certain species of fish. Use Nutrafin pH Stabilizer for superior results in maintaining an optimal KH value. The replacement of Fluval Peat Granular media is determined by testing and the diminishing effect it has on pH and KH levels."

Guess I should pay more attention....

Thanks,
Ted
 
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Quick piece of advice with the milwaulkee regulator and solenoid (since i have one and almost overdosed my fish using it) you'll need to teflon tape the bubble counter, it'll lose gas and the pressure you need to get the air into the tank and past a check valve will be more CO2 than you want to use...
 
You be careful about the same old falsehoods you perpetuate. Don't let my name fool you. I keep a heavily planted high tech tank and I am a 40 year old scientist.
We ran a carefully controlled study with reproducability. A lot of you may be used to spewing out the same old info to people, but there is no way a hobby can progress that way. Truth of the matter is...KH of 2 is GREAT! you do not need to bicarb the water to stabilize PH. PH has less of a room for error, true but it will not "crash" as people like to spew. Why don't you give me your definition of pH crash and how you think it comes about.


You quoted plants grow regardless of kh??? hahahaha WRONG
many species require a lower KH Tonina Belem, prime example.

Coral over Baking soda??? Again WRONG!!!!
Coral is not a quantitative system. You throw a bunch in a bag and stick it in your filter and think you are doing the right thing??> WRONG AGAIN

I am not normally this caustic, but when you start your commentary with this condescending attitude when you have no idea what caliber of person you are talking to, nor the protocol we followed to come to these conclusions...this makes me think you are the one in question.

If you need to raise the kH of your water then you can use plain old baking soda, not baking powder but baking soda. One teaspoon of baking soda will increase the kH of 50 liters of water (13 gallons) by 4 degrees (68 ppm)


To sum it up.

To raise kH use baking soda. One teaspoon will increase the kH of 50 liters of water (13 gallons) by 4 degrees (68 ppm).

To raise gH use calcium chloride and Epsom salts. Add them separately or you will end up with calcium sulfate which takes a very long time to dissolve.

0.79 grams of calcium chloride and 0.33 grams of Epsom salts will raise 10 gallons of water 1° of gH.

But know this....with a kh of 2-3 YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THIS!



djlen said:
fish newby - Be very careful about the information you dispense when you know little about what you speak.
It is fact that without proper buffer, CO2 injection can cause the pH to crash. The commonly held theory on 'proper' in this case is 3.0 - 3.5°kH.
Just because you have had no issues with yours does not change the fact that not taking precautions can/will lead to heart breaking results over lost fish. I've seen it happen and I've spoken to many, many people over the years who started to inject without buffering up their water.
The kH of the water has little affect on the growth of plants. Mine have grown well at 3.5°kH for years and are now growing just as well or better at 6 - 9°kH (depending on the tank in question).
The fact that you suggest baking soda as an alternative to coral just points up how uninformed you are on this topic. Baking soda will buffer kH, but within 24 hours it's affect weakens and the kH once again reverts to form. Coral, while taking longer to act is a much more stable way of holding kH at a higher level more consistently.

Len
Click to expand...
 
You can either take my advice, as it is great advice for an alternative, or you can choose not to, but understand this. You will not get any informed contribution to this forum with this type of dismissive behavior IMO. This topic has been argued and proven and recreated and concluded over the past year, so get with the program.
 
here is a couple quotes from some colleagues...



I got good results with 100% Ro water and CO2 - I had < 1 kH and pH 5.3 - fish, shrimps and plants were happy happy.

And using Crushed coral just means that you stress the heck out of your fish, when TDS changes all the time...

Kh/pH changes are no problems for fishs, but gH changes are a killer.

Have you ever seen a couple of angelfish go from 1 gH to 18 gH doing a waterchange. They flip horisonticaly in a mater of seconds... Thats a killer for sure...
So my exp with kH is that no buffer is no problem.





never thought I'd be able to grow rotala macrandra in this water, but it is. And yes, that's a -goldfish- putting up with all this soft water low KH nonsense!

Give me a break...


Here is a fact...by the time the coral buffers the pH your GH or TDS is sky high!! Ive used both, I am now back to using baking soda. because you can "measure" it and it is predictable. It is also very true that a buffer does exhaust itself...crushed coral doesnt get exhausted? Just because it provides a longer term effect vs coral doesnt mean its not good. I prefer baking soda over coral because I can target my KH with it, I dont want to tie anyone to my views so I wont quote the perrson who made me realize this.

One thing I learned is there is more then one way to fry and egg. give them a pic of my Discus spawning in a "crashed" aquarium



__Based on reading a related thread at that other plant forum, I lowered my KH to <1 and added CO2 until it dropped off the color chart. And then added more. And more. I got the plants happy and never saw any effect on the fish.

BTW, my tapwater is 15-16dKH and 23-24dGH, so this was a real adjustment.________________


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That reminds me of my tank A 42 gallon with 4 goldfish (ryukin, oranda, pearlscale, and black moor). I've got such a high bioload in there I had to put in a nitrate filter, which ends up keeping the nitrates around 30-40 ppm. I thought the high bioload was what was causing my r. macrandra to fail, but I've progressively been lowering my KH and GH. I'm now targeting 60 ppm KH and 80 ppm GH (both as CaCO3 on the Lamotte kits) and finally my r. macrandra has taken off! It looks just like yours!

And, my fish seem much spunkier and happier in this softer water. So much for goldfish "preferring" harder water.
 
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Somehow I seem to have got up in the middle of this.... Jeesh. :help:

My last question was in regards to my KH being so low and could it be my use of Peat in my fluval filters? I will test my tap tonight.

Also, about 2 months ago when I setup the tank, I used that 7.0 buffer stuff. That was many 30% water changes ago... wouldn't that be gone by now?

Thanks!

Ted
 
I would never use that buffer stuff....really do not use it. The only pH 7 thing you should be using is a pH probe calibrator...lol
You are not in the middle of this....it is bigger than you. but getting back to your question...
Of you have made many water changes since then, you should be ok. Don't use that stuff anymore IMO

As for the peat, I wouldn't put anything in my filter until I know my water chemistry raw....once you know that then we can talk about creativity...

Secondly, you need to get a water report from your municipality or utility comapny. You can do a search online. Most will post it. You can get an idea of your KH from there. Then test it with a good kit that has been validated by a control. Once you know, and no new wood, rock, or other hardscape additive has been added, you can get a general idea as to where you will want your pH to get the CO2 in ppm that will be best for your plants.
This link may help you understand the relationship better and how kH .1 is fine. It is also a calculator to determine what pH to target for said ppm CO2....just fill in the number


http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
 
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They (water company) don't have a clue. Only hardness number they had was CACO3 at 2ppm. No buffers, using chlorine and a Polyortho Phosphate as an anti-corrosive.
 
ok then next step get a good kh kit....not a cheapie one... or get two types and run them simultaneously to see what you get. but do this from the tap not from the peat-filtered water...

Do you have a hardscape in your tank?
 
If you mean a driftwood centerpiece... yes I do.
 
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