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Copper Proteinate for Inverts-Digging Deeper to the Truth

Discussion in 'Freshwater Invertebrates' started by Lupin, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. Lupin

    Lupin Registered Member

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    Does anyone have any references towards the importance of copper proteinate as one of the added ingredients in most shrimp and snail foods? I remember one topic towards copper proteinate where one of us got an email response from Hikari claiming copper is vital for the shrimps' health. Small concentrations won't normally hurt the inverts especially as it is chelated but I still can't pinpoint the truth behind the reason of adding copper in their foods. I asked Ken of Kensfish this morning for queries about the invertebrate foods and his response that no copper will be added in the foods for inverts had me thinking why would Hikari and a few other companies would add copper in their recipe if copper may not be important at all. I've been trying to dig around the internet but all the searches yielded copper meds being fatal to inverts, etc.


    Edit: Found one. Guess I can see it now. Will leave this posted in case anyone may have some important points to share.
    http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Copper
     
  2. pik01

    pik01 AC Members

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    Scooby Dooby Doo...

    thread from The Planted Tank - Hikari 'Shrimp Cuisine' contains Copper, why?

    from the thread:

    and then the email response from Hikari:

     
  3. Lupin

    Lupin Registered Member

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    Thanks for sharing, Pik! Now we know why there is no reason to worry about copper proteinate being one of the ingredients in some commercial foods.:)
     
  4. pik01

    pik01 AC Members

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    hehe, all I did was round up some answers. I still have concerns over just how much copper proteinate is in these foods. Hikari is not the only brand that adds copper proteinate and there's no telling how much is in ANY of the brands since it's such a trace amount. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the shrimp got enough trace copper from tap water, fertilizers, or plant substrates.

    edit: "decapod crustaceans (like shrimp) need around 31.3 to 38.1 μg (1 μg = 1/1,000,000 of a gram) of copper per gram of body mass." Uh, how many grams does an average dwarf shrimp weigh? Curse me and my standard-oriented brain, I'm terrible at estimating metric units.

    further edit: So uh the new invert-oriented foods shouldn't have any copper, huh? Since copper sulf
    ate is the form that is toxic to inverts, I would advise against feeding inverts Ken's Premium Sinking Pellets with Spirulina. Ingredients: SOYBEAN MEAL, FISH MEAL, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, WHEAT FLOUR, DEHYDRATED ALFALFA MEAL, DRIED SPIRULINA ALGEA, FISH OIL, BREWERS DRIED YEAST, SHRIMP MEAL, SOY LECITHIN, DRIED KRILL, MONOSODIUM PHOSPHATE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, L-ASCORBYL-2-POLYPHOSPHATE(SOURCE OF VITAMIN C), INOSITOL, MENADIONE DIMETHYLPYRIMIDINOL BISULFITE, PARA-AMINOBENZOIC ACID, DI-ALPHA TOCOPHEROL ACETATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN E), NIACIN, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, D-ACTIVATED ANIMAL STEROL (SOURCE OF VITAMIN D3), FOLIC ACID, RIBOFLAVIN, BIOTIN, VITAMIN A ACETATE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, ZINC SULFATE, MANGANESE SULFATE, COPPER SULFATE, POTASSIUM IODATE, BHT & ETHOXYQUIN (ADDED AS PRESERVATIVES).

    to be fair though, that pellet is designed for bottom feeder fish, not inverts.
     
    #4 pik01, Feb 26, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2009
  5. Lupin

    Lupin Registered Member

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    Could you please try emailing Hikari and ask the data for copper traces?
     
  6. vampie

    vampie AC Members

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    I'm sure they would get enough from other sources, otherwise they'd be dead, wouldn't they? I still avoid foods with copper intentionally added though, since you can't really measure how much they're taking in and what their threshold is, it just seems it'd do more harm than good.
     
  7. pik01

    pik01 AC Members

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    sure, I'll try shooting them an email, can't hurt.
     
  8. Lupin

    Lupin Registered Member

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    It wasn't what Ken recommended. Good point though but I don't think that one was for inverts rather for fish. Here's his email to me.

    Here were the questions I asked this morning minus one for garlic which is not related to this subject.
     
  9. pik01

    pik01 AC Members

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    ah, good to know :)
     
  10. Lupin

    Lupin Registered Member

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    Bump for Pik. Pik, I miss your presence here. Hope you have some updates.:)
     

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