Crayfish!

judayxlo said:
Thanks for your help.

My previous answer was too long it seems.
My point was that you're being awfully rude about the information you're giving me.
I'm still learning.I already know I've made mistakes. You don't have to be so mean about it.
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It could have been much worse. I could have answered you. Just ask anybody here!
 
vwill279 said:
Exactly. I'm really not trying to be mean. But I have been in the pet business for 15 years working with rescues, groomers, etc and have seen so much pain and suffering to animals from just plain impulse buys, lack of research, and ignorance. I do think it is a very good thing that you are asking for advice and I do wish for the best for you and your animals. It is just really hard for for me to see animals be in pain or unhappy due to human intervention.

Here's some info about my cray setup: I have a 20gallon long tank with 3 CPO's in it. I have 5 hollow bamboo sections and 2 rock caves for them to hide as well as 2 heavily planted areas and a literal jungle of plants floating. I thought I had bought a 2 females and a male, but it ended up being 2 males and a female. The female spends all her time either hiding in one of the bamboo tube sections or hiding up in the plants in my "floating jungle" of watersprite and duckweed. The two males WILL fight if they meet up. In my 20 gallon tank that is usually a few times a week. Generally, both come out of it unharmed, though the one that ran away tends to hide for a day or so.

This is why I was so upset about your setup. Even with my setup I still get occasional aggression. You were planning on putting 2 CPO's and 4 much larger marmokrebs in a tank half the size of mine with only 2 hiding places. Crays are solitary animals generally. When they meet up with another of their kind there are 4 results: Mate (if male and female), Fight (any gender), predate (larger to smaller) or avoid each other and move away (any gender) In a small tank, that leaves little space for avoidance and will likely result in fighting. Marmokrebs (self cloning) are not dwarf crays like CPO's. They can get to be 4" (and one in the wild has been found that is over twice that) and will gladly eat a 1.5" CPO with no hesitation. A 10 gallon tank is 20" x 10" and for substrate critters like crays, the footprint is way more important than the amount of water. With 4 4" fully grown marmokrebs in that, it leaves about 1" of space between them. With 2, it leaves only about 6" between them. Not very much space for them to establish a territory. Since marmokrebs are all female though, you will have less fighting among them. Also, juveniles fight less than adults, which is why your breeder could probably keep more crays in a smaller tank. When crays molt, their new exoskeleton is very soft and they really need to hide from other crays or predators. Lots of crays kill and eat each other during molts if they can. From what I've read, it is a very common cause of baby crayfish loss in a breeding tank. This is why lots of hiding places are so important. They need somewhere safe to wait out their vulnerable time while their exoskeleton hardens.

Here is more advice that I can give you to help your remaining crays have the best life you can give them if you cannot get separate tanks for them. They make platforms for aquariums that you can suction cup or silicon to the side of your tank. Having an extra platform or two with a few caves, cholla wood, or hollow bamboo segments on each will give you much more area for them to roam. They may even each take up separate levels of the aquarium which can help with territorial aggression. Also, crays need a calcium source to help keep their exoskeletons in good shape for protection. Generally, you can buy food for them with calcium in it, or add a small piece of cuttlebone to the tank for them to pick at. Dont remove their molts, as they eat these to regain some of the lost minerals. I feed my crays a variety of foods with both protein and vegetable matter in it. I blanch a zucchini slice for them once a week and they get Captain Bob's sinking 40 pellets and spirulina algae wafers, which they love. They also enjoy hunting snails and I find them trying to eat small ramshorn or mystery snails. It gives them something to do and is entertaining to watch. I think the snails you have in that tank are probably too big for them to eat. Ramshorns breed quickly and they come in some pretty colors so losing a few to a crayfish wont ruin the aethetics of keeping them. They'll also eat any food not consumed by the crayfish, which will help keep the tank cleaner. Live plants are appreciated by crays for climbing and hiding in. Its much easier on them than plastic plants and they will also help keep the water clean.

If you do decide you want more crays, please get separate tanks for them. If you have any questions, dont hesitate to ask. I AM sorry that I came across as rude, it was my frustration and sadness at loss of animal life that boiled over.
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I'm really sorry about what I said. It's because I was frustrated at myself too for not having done ENOUGH research. I didn't think that it would be so difficult to have crayfish. I spent a good 3 days researching online before I got the crayfish and spent 3 more days setting it up. I thought that since I had the spongebob pineapple and the cholla wood in there, it would be enough hiding spaces for them.
I also care about the animals too. That's another reason why I got offended, because I was really heartbroken about my crays killing each other and dying off as it is, and I think hearing it from another person just made it harder on me.

Thank you so much for all the useful information you have provided.
I took your advice and I bought a pvc pipe, cut them into 6 small squares and used silicone to bind them together in a pyramid-type structure. As soon as the silicone sits for 3-4 days I will be adding it to the tank.
I didn't know that they needed extra calcium boosters. I thought that it was fine to feed them freeze dried shrimp and bloodworms. Also, since they eat their own exoskeleton post-molt, I thought it'd be alright on the calcium.

I think I won't buy more crayfish until I'm able to get a bigger tank or I find more hiding places for them. I have some aquarium rocks that I keep in my downstairs fish tank, so I will be using those to make caves and such.

There's another question that I have though. The smaller cray I call 'Ariel' is worrying me a little bit. I'm not sure whether she's about to molt or whether she's sick, but she doesn't move very much. Sometimes she just sits in the pineapple on her side, and sometimes she goes in a corner by the cholla wood (which I dont get, since Monster lives in the cholla wood). Monster just molted two days ago, and I believe she consumed her exoskeleton.
 
Since you only had your tank set up for 3 days, I'm assuming it isnt cycled. Crays are pretty sensitive to dirty water, much more so than most fish. There are numerous threads on cycling a tank and why it is important to keep the water quality good. I would read those. I would also do a 50% or larger water change. Also, with crays, its important that you vacuum the substrate more often than with fish. Because they live on the substrate, all the waste that gets trapped between the gravel creates a much higher level of waste right at the bottom of the tank than the rest of the water column. I do a water change on all of my tanks 2x a week and vacuum gravel at least one of those times. Since your tank isnt cycled, I would continue doing big water changes at twice to three times a week. Test the water. You generally should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and for crays, I like to keep nitrates at 15ppm or less.

Also, please make sure that you are also feeding them vegetable matter. A solid protein diet is not good for them as in the wild, crays generally feed on both critters they can catch, but also dead and decaying plant material. Algae wafers and blanched veggies like zucchini work. Make sure that you remove any uneaten food after a day so it doesnt foul the water.

A cray laying on it's side is showing severe stress. If you want Ariel to live, you're going to have to take swift action.
 
Do u w/c the tank? How long has it been setup? You need more rocks/wood/etc. You may only be able to keep the dominate crayfish in a 10g (monster)
 
Medical issues are no excuse for improper care. If you are aware of limitations, you need to allow for them. People are too quick to blame ADHD when things go wrong. I too have ADHD issues as well as numerous other health problems but knowing this makes me slow down and try to learn to do things the right way. No replies have been harsh, just factual in the things you need to do and what you are facing. If you can't or won't take criticism, you aren't going to succeed as well as you could. The fact that someone else can do ABC and have it work doesn't make it right. This is something that is hard to compete with. We all make mistakes and and most learn from them and move on. No one is here to make you feel bad but rather to teach you what is right.

Three days of reading wouldn't be much help to me since I have memory issues. What works is read and re-read the same materials until I can almost quote it. Yeah it's tough but I consider myself to be reasonably successful at it. It all depends on how willing you are to learn and work at it. In the beginning, it's tough and you think you will never understand the basics. It all starts to sink in after a while. You just need to stick it out. Sometimes you will wonder if people will ever stop flaming you. It's going to happen so get used to the idea. You may even get conflicting information. Take the time to learn.

I agree that a 10gallon is too small for your crays. Keeping an animal in too small of a tank will cause "stunting". They may not outgrow the tank but they still will have the normal sized internal organs in a body too small for them. It can be both painful and cause an early demise.

Be patient and take the time to learn the right way. You'll make it. Good luck.
 
vwill279 said:
Since you only had your tank set up for 3 days, I'm assuming it isnt cycled. Crays are pretty sensitive to dirty water, much more so than most fish. There are numerous threads on cycling a tank and why it is important to keep the water quality good. I would read those. I would also do a 50% or larger water change. Also, with crays, its important that you vacuum the substrate more often than with fish. Because they live on the substrate, all the waste that gets trapped between the gravel creates a much higher level of waste right at the bottom of the tank than the rest of the water column. I do a water change on all of my tanks 2x a week and vacuum gravel at least one of those times. Since your tank isnt cycled, I would continue doing big water changes at twice to three times a week. Test the water. You generally should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and for crays, I like to keep nitrates at 15ppm or less.

Also, please make sure that you are also feeding them vegetable matter. A solid protein diet is not good for them as in the wild, crays generally feed on both critters they can catch, but also dead and decaying plant material. Algae wafers and blanched veggies like zucchini work. Make sure that you remove any uneaten food after a day so it doesnt foul the water.

A cray laying on it's side is showing severe stress. If you want Ariel to live, you're going to have to take swift action.
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Yeah I had it set up for 3 days, but I used filter media from my friend's family aquarium that was up and running for years.
I also checked the water levels before putting the crayfish in the tank.
I have done 50% water changes every week since I got the tank set up.

Ariel is moving around the tank now and she's been eating pretty well too.
The only thing is her color is really brown, as opposed to Monster who is really blue (and giant)
 
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