Critique my wet/dry set-up...

[railNtrailcowgr]

So I have been skrimping and saving to upgrade my 10 gallon tank to a 29 gal with 20L wet/dry. I have been doing lots of research and this is what I've come up with so far.

I still have some questions though. I know I will need some sort of overflow to get the water down into my sump, however, I am unsure of how to get it back up and into my tank. I know I will need some sort of pump (how do I determine GPH needed?) and then once pumped up how do I distribute the filtered water through my tank, spray bar?

Also, when using an over flow box, it seems to me that you would just be re-filtering the water in the "top" of the tank that just came from the filter. How do you get the water and gunk from the bottom of the tank?

:help:

 

[jones57742]

rtc: as I am certain that you are aware the break-over point from cannister and HOB to wet/dry is typically considered to be 100G but if you want to use a 20 Long for a wet/dry it will easily support the 29G and will actually support a 65G tank.

Critique my wet/dry set-up

You asked ...

• [1] The filtration media box is employed in several prefab sumps but I would not fabricate one as the box kinda defeats the purpose of the wet/dry in that a limited quantity of media can be placed in the media box.

• [2] The inflow from the tank can be dropped directly onto the mechanical media but your design will work.

• [3] The sump will be divided into 4 chambers (I am assuming that the 20L is 30" long x 13" wide x 13" deep).
  • [A] The first chamber will be 6" wide stuffed with pot scrubbers for biological and mechanical prefiltration and will be separated from the second chamber by a overflow weir as you have shown.
  • The second chamber will be 6" wide in which will be placed (from top to bottom) coarse filtration media (the blue and white semi-foam), filter floss, 100Mu media and 50Mu media. The media will reside on a drilled plate approximately 2" above the bottom of the sump. The second chamber will be separated from the third chamber by an underflow weir.
  
  
  • [C] The third chamber will be 6" wide and filled with pot scrubbers or preferably media bags with sintered glass. The third chamber will be separated from the fourth chamber by an overflow weir.
  • [D] The fourth chamber will be 12" wide and the outflow orifice bulkhead will placed such that the bottom of the orifice is at the same height as the soffit of pump inflow orifice.

I still have some questions though. I know I will need some sort of overflow to get the water down into my sump, however, I am unsure of how to get it back up and into my tank. I know I will need some sort of pump (how do I determine GPH needed?)

Yes. The pump capacity will depend upon several factors of which the primary is the dimension from the static water surface in the sump to the static water surface in the tank unless you decide to go with a larger tank.
Please note that we will need to calculate the actual flow of the pump as this flow will probably be substantially less than the rated flow.

and then once pumped up how do I distribute the filtered water through my tank, spray bar?

Also, when using an over flow box, it seems to me that you would just be re-filtering the water in the "top" of the tank that just came from the filter. How do you get the water and gunk from the bottom of the tank?

No spray bar with an overflow weir. I have 3D nozzles but several configurations are possible.


rtg: This post is lengthy and more is necessary if you are really serious about proceeding with a wet/dry fabrication.

TR

 

[Cory Keeper]

Meh, I think doing a sump or W/D is kinda wasting your money, and kinda overkill on a 29g tank.

If'n ya like DIY projects, lemme suggest this for your tank. http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154096

My intake is at the back, spraybar at the back, with the bar facing towards the glass going a little downward, this in effect collects all kinds of dirt and grime otherwise not gotten on such things as, HOB filters.

If your really want to go W/D, a 10g would be more appropriate, I think a 20 long is a little on the overkill side.

 

[Sploke]

If you want to, the w/d would work great, and the nice part is if you wanted to upgrade the main display tank at a later date, you could keep the equipment and maybe just upgrade the pump, but for the most part you could keep everything the same. However, for this scale, a canister might be cheaper depending on how much of the equipment you already have.

I would use the entire main chamber of the sump for biomedia, or at least as much as possible. I would build a drip tray that would hold a bonded filter pad, so that would be your mech filtration (very easy to access for maintenance too), then have that drip over the tank full of biomedia, then the second chamber for the return pump. You could even put the heater in the return pump section. I usually shoot for 3-5x turnover through a wet/dry on my larger tanks, but with a sump that size (relative to the main tank) you could easily do 10x. Maybe go with a Mag 5 return pump. You can build a return manifold with PVC and have it return water down to the bottom instead of a spray bar if you're worried about keeping the return water mixed well. That would also blow any detritus that settles on the bottom up into the water column where the overflow can pick it up.

 

[railNtrailcowgr]

Thank you all for the help! I know the sump is overkill for a 29 gallon tank, however, I am looking to upgrade again within the next year or so, after I get married and we find a more "permanate" place to live. I would love to have a larger tank now but it is my senior year in collage (smaller budget) and I know I will be moving around quite a bit in the next 1 1/2 yrs and I don't want to worry about a large tank and all it's inhabitants. So in effect I'm doing the sump to save money in the long run.

Ok so reading through the posts this is what I came up with...

[2] The inflow from the tank can be dropped directly onto the mechanical media but your design will work.

This was done to help cut down on the "waterfall" noise of the water coming from the main tank. My roommates are not fond of my fish (not sure what is wrong with them, lol) so it will be in my bedroom and I would like it to be as silent as possible.

[D] The fourth chamber will be 12" wide and the outflow orifice bulkhead will placed such that the bottom of the orifice is at the same height as the soffit of pump inflow orifice.

I am a little unsure of what you mean by this?

Again thank you to everyone who has replied!

 

[Lil_Stinker]

Bookmarked for later comment

I have lots of ideas though

 

[jones57742]

rtg:

This will work except that the first weir should be an underflow instead of an overflow (the mechanical media will be bypassed as per your current design) and the inflow tube discharge orifice raised in the inflow chamber.

I cannot comment on the submersible pump as I have never employed one.

The top of the weir overflows need to be low enough such that the sump will contain the volume in the tank between the elevation of the typical operating water surface and the bottom of the overflow weir.

Plan on placing a plexiglass plate on the top of the sump for "noise dampening".

TR

 

[jones57742]

rtg:

Two additional items if "you really want to get fancy".

Place an air diffusion disk under the biological media in the last biological filtration chamber.

Place an air diffusion disk in the last chamber. Place a light above the last chamber and add floating plants (ie. a FW refugium).

TR

 

[railNtrailcowgr]

Ok, so after some more minor tweeks this is what I have...

PS-Ignore the blue arrows I was using them to make sure I had my flow worked out right.

Chamber 1: Inflow from main tank, used to help baffle some noise and help force water through the coarse media (pot scrubbers)

Chamber 2: Coarse media (pot scrubbers).

Chamber 3: Mechanical Filtration with drip tray to help disperse incoming water and utilize all media in the chamber.
A-Blue Bonded Filter Media (Dk Blue/White)
B-Filter Floss (White/Grey Speckled)
C-100Mu media (Lt Blue)
D-50Mu (Aqua)
E-Followed by egg crate to hold everything up (Grey Speckled)

Chamber 4: Biological filtration (pot scrubbers/sintered glass, I have not decided on one or the other yet) with air diffusion disk to help the aerobic bacteria.

Chamber 5: Return pump chamber with heaters/other misc. Possibly in the furture a fresh water fuge. I don't think I'm ready to step up and deal with plants yet. I don't want to mess with lighting, ferts, CO2, ect...

Is there anything I am missing? Thank you again to all who gave me help and direction!

Still a few questions...
Is there anywhere I can go/article I can read that will help me determine how many GPH I need my return pump? I know how to figure it out with just the turnover rate but I don't know how to calculate for the height the water must travel from the wet/dry to the main tank.

Also, I am still unsure how tall my baffles should be. I read somewhere on AC that they should be about 2/3-3/4 the hight of the tank. Based on that I was thinking the "overflow" part should be about 8.5" and the "underflow" part should be 2-3" off the bottom of the tank. Is this correct??

 

[jones57742]

Is there anything I am missing? Thank you again to all who gave me help and direction!

Looks to me like you got her down!

Is there anywhere I can go/article I can read that will help me determine how many GPH I need my return pump? I know how to figure it out with just the turnover rate but I don't know how to calculate for the height the water must travel from the wet/dry to the main tank.

If you can tell me:

• [1] what pump you are proposing to used and preferably it's, what is termed, head/discharge curve;

• [2] the dimension from the typical water surface in the sump to the typical water surface in the tank; and

• [3] the size of the tube from the pump to the tank

I can estimate the appropriate pump capacity and then walk you through the calculations for your edification.
Example head/discharge curves for Iwaki external pumps which I use.

Also, I am still unsure how tall my baffles should be. I read somewhere on AC that they should be about 2/3-3/4 the hight of the tank. Based on that I was thinking the "overflow" part should be about 8.5"

No! We need to know what type of overflow weir you anticipate employing.
The height of these weirs is based on the volume of water in the tank between the static water surface and the base of the tank overflow weir (this height is determined such that the sump will not overflow if the pump fails).

and the "underflow" part should be 2-3" off the bottom of the tank. Is this correct??

No. 5/8" is appropriate.

TR