Cycle

[JSchmidt]

Great post, Richer. I'd add to the cons of fishy cycling that fish cycling may cause permanent damage to sensitive gill tissue from ammonia burns, and the discomfort the fish feel from swimming in toxins.

There are certainly greater evils in the world than cycling with fish, and some folks who practice fishy cycling are no doubt extremely conscientious to minimize damage/discomfort to the fish. Newbies are much more likely to err during cycling, though, and expose fish to dangerous level of toxins. Even worse, the idea of using 'cycling fish" seems to promote the idea that some fish are more or less disposable, an idea I find in opposition to the feelings that make me want to keep these creatures as pets.

Jim

 

[TKOS]

Cycling fish is one of my biggest pet peeves. I have even heard of stores that tell you to bring your danios back after they have been through the cycle so they can sell them to others for the same purpose.

My current tanks were fishy cycled, but I also had them stuffed with fast growing stem plants and did many water changes. Over a year later they are still very healthy. But I agree that without proper knowledge you will more than likely damage your fish or kill them. My next tank will be a fishless cycle.

 

[countrygirl]

Okay don't throw stones at me too hard, I know I shouldn't have brought my babies home BUT I DID, call me impatient call me whatever you want, but I promise I will be very very careful and check the water levels religiously. Here is what we did. We filled the tank last night added aquasafe and cycle and let if sit for a couple of hours until it got to 75 degrees. Then I added a smallish (For this tank) Berney's Shark, a Fire Eel, and two angelfish. Then this afternoon we went to the fish store where our poor fish have been waiting for two months on hold. We picked them all up. A motoro stingray, a leopaldi stingray, a large Blue Acara and three large Bala sharks.

They gave us the gunk from the filter to add to our wet/dry system. Guess what they found in the filter when they did that? A baby Acara (the other large acara in the tank had died) So they gave him to us for free he is about 3 inches long and an inch and a half wide. I can't believe he lived in the filter all that time. But they gave him to us free. He is so sweet.

When we got home we added the gunk directly to the wet/dry system to start the bioballs off. Then we floated the fish for 20 minutes and added them all to the tank. So far so good. I then went and picked up some feeder fish and shrimp pellets and boy did these guys eat them all. Good sign, I think, means they aren't too stressed out so far I think.

So this is what we have in there:

1 fire eel
1 Berney's Shark
1 Motoro Stingray
1 Leopaldi Stingray
2 Angelfish
2 Acaras
3 Balas

 

[Richer]

Alright... what's done is done I suppose.

You have introduced a large load to an uncycle tank... prepare for equally large ammonia spikes. Do large water changes _every_ day without exception. Reduce on the amount of food you feed your fish. Fish don't need much to eat. My 66 gallon Malawi tank only gets fed a few pellets and a few flakes once every 2 days, and my fish are thriving (the fish have bred countless times). I must re-emphasize, you _cannot_ slack off on the water changes. You have expensive (and nice) fish in your tank, you cannot risk losing nor injurying them.

Forget about feeder fish, unless you breed your own, you are only introducing fish with potential diseases to your tank.

*edit*
If you can find a friend, or whoever who has multiple filters on a _healthy_ tank, ask to take one of the sponges/bio media off of the filter and stick it into your filter, that should help things out a little bit.

HTH
-Richer

 

[countrygirl]

I will be careful. I get so much different information from so many different people. Some say don't bother with the water changes because of the size of the tank, type of filter and siz of pump. Some, like you say do it EVERY DAY without fail. Yikes don't know what to do. I will keep a very close eye on the levels and test the water every day, if I even have a slight discoloration on the amonia test I will do a 25% water change.

I have learned quite a bit about cycling through all of this. My son's 30 gallon aquarium he got for Christmas I water changed on the 4th day, the 8th day, then every week, once a month went by I reduced the water changes to whenever the water got cloudy. Now I change the water once a month and his tank is chrystal clear and so healthy we have a breeding pair of Angelfish in there already.

I have even had people tell me to overfeed the fish like crazy so the bacteria will grow faster, and people tell me to barely feed them so they don't produce much waste. It's so hard to know what to do.

 

[countrygirl]

Well it is day 3 and good news. All fish are fine and active. We have done a 25% water change yesterday and today and testing the water with my kit tells me pH 7.4, Ammonia 0 and Nitrates 0. The guy that built the tank took some water and tested it on his expensive machine and he said good news. Amonia 0.1 Nitrates 0.24 and pH 7.2. The water is cloudy though. We have a filter in the prefilter that looks like quilting batting and we are changing that every two hours. Hopefully the bioballs will get populated with bacteria fast since we added the gunk from the filter of the tank my fish were in at the pet store; directly to the wet/dry filter.

 

[copeina]

Day 3 isn't even the begining of a tank cycle. It is a 4 - 6 week process. Just wait until day 13, then you'll be wishing you hadn't been so hasty in stocking the tank.

While changing water will keep the spikes to (hopefully) sub-lethal levels, it will also lengthen the cycling process because it reduces the concentration of available bacteria food. It is kind of a good/bad way to start out. Plan on at least a 6 week cycle using this method.

BTW, where are you located? Locally, stingrays are like $150 a pop, and I think the leopoldi is closer to $300! That's quite the expensive taste for a self-proclaimed 'newbie' unsure of how to cycle a tank.

Good luck. You'll need it.
/Douglas

 

[TKOS]

I have to agree that you should be doign daily water changes. As for your sons tank, just because the water is crystal clear doesn't mean the water doesn't need changing. Not to sound mean or jumpy or anything but there things liek nitrates don't make the water cloudy and at high levels are toxic. That 30 gallon tank needs weekly water changes. Also the metabolic process that breaks nitrogen down creates acids which eat away at the buffer in a tank and will eventually drop your pH.

And one more quick little tid bit, hardy fish can easily withstand a 20 minute float int he fish store bag but generally acclimation should take at least an hour as you slowly take a little water out of the bag and replace it with a small amount of fish tank water. Temp isn't the only thing to acclimate for, water quality (ph, hardness etc...) is just as important.

 

[kveeti]

copeina makes a great point about being overly optimistic on Day 3.

However, I have a differing view on water changes and cycle lengths, based on what I have read by people a lot more knowledgeable than myself. As long as there is ammonia detected by the test kit, the bacteria will continue to grow simply because the ammonia is excessive. A higher ammonia reading does not make their metabolism/reproduction speed up. They will continue to multiply at their own pace as long as excess 'food' is present. Water changes help the fish. As long as water changes dilute the ammonia to almost 0 (but not 0) the cycle process will not take longer.

 

[JSchmidt]

I agree totally with Kveeti. In addition, there is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that higher ammonia levels might inhibit development of nitrite-eaters.

As long as you have ammonia in excess of what the nitrifiers can eat, they will grow in number.

Jim