Cycling and ammonia

J

jamiya0727

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Oct 16, 2007
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History: I have a 6-gallon tank that has been running for almost a year. It is cycled and stable and doing well. Eight weeks ago, I started a 12-gallon tank. It had one immature danio in it. After 8 weeks, the water was running at 1.0ppm ammonia no matter what I did. However, four weeks ago I started a little 3-gallon which contains a couple baby snails. It finished cycling over the weekend. So I put the danio in there for the time being and tore down the 12-gallon.

Preparing the tank: I siphoned out all the water, changed the carbon filter (left the Bio-wheel in), washed the gravel, and used all new ornaments and plastic plants. I do not have any live plants. I filled the tank, adding water conditioner to each bucket as I added it. Then I left it overnight.

Just for fun, I tested the water this morning, and ammonia is 1.0ppm. What?! Wait......tap water. I tested the tap water, and sure enough - 1.0ppm. But wait....I do a 10% water change every day on the 3-gallon and the ammonia never went over 0.25ppm while cycling and now it is 0. How could that be? Ah....the water conditioner.

So, I splashed a little water conditioner in small container of tap water and tested the ammonia - 0ppm. Huh.

So I drained the 12-gallon and refilled it, testing the first bucket and the last bucket of water, and then the water in the tank. Of course, the tank was full by the time I read the tests - 1.0ppm. Arrrrgh!!

At this point, all I can think of is that I am using a very large amount of water conditioner (relatively speaking) in the 3-gallon and also in my "test cup" of water, because I just splashed a very small amount in, but that's still a lot compared to how much water is in the cup.

So I added two whole capfuls of conditioner to the 12-gallon, but it was still reading 1.0ppm when I had to leave for work.

What the heck?! Am I not using enough water conditioner? Is it my bucket? Should I just wait it out with no fish in there since there is ammonia to feed the bacteria, and then all will be well once it is cycled? Should I purchase spring water and then just make sure I condition the heck out of the tap water for water changes?

For pete's sake. Bigger tanks are supposed to be easier. :)
 
If your tap water is 1.0 I'd be calling the water company. I do not think they can have the high of an ammonia level.

If I were you I'd get some pure ammonia and read up on a fishless cycle. It would take 2 or 3 weeks, but I'm worried about added tap water with that high of an ammonia reading. You might want to think of other options if you have that high of a reading. I have a small amount in my .25 or there about.

Have you tested any other taps in your house? I get different reading from different taps.
How are the other tanks doing? When you do a water change how much does the ammonia change in them?

What type of water conditioner are you using?
 
I am surprised at this reading myself. We drink the RO water, although we cook from the tap water. The other tanks are fine. The ammonia is zero before water changes and zero after water changes.

I haven't tested any other taps, but I will now. I use Nutrafin's Aqua Plus water conditioner.

I have read a lot about fishless cycling. What's the deal with the magic number of 5ppm? Wouldn't the tank cycle with ammonia of 1ppm?
 
Okay, I called my water company and I feel like a fish out of water (LOL), so maybe someone here can tell me if what I was told is correct or not.

They said that the ammonia reading from the tap is a false reading because the reagents used to test aquarium water are not the same as the reagents used to test tap water. She said I am getting the false reading for ammonia because there are chloramines in the water. Therefore, when I add the water conditioner (which neutralizes chloramines), I get a reading of zero.

I suppose this makes sense. It would also seem to point to not using enough conditioner for a full bucket. The only tank that I put a full bucket of water into is the 12-gallon. I am never changing that much water from the other tanks, and where I always thought I was over-conditioning it sounds like I am not. I am actually UNDER-conditioning when I condition a whole bucket.

Apparently, I need a lot more conditioner than the bottle says. I will have to go home and have a chemistry experiment tonight, and find out how much I need to add to a bucket of water to make the ammonia go to zero.

FYI, I am using Nutrafin AquaPlus.
 
I think she they might be right.
I have done and do twice a year a tap water base line.
I take a gallon of water and test it straight from the tap.
Then add the water conditioner and test again
Then wait 24 hours and test again
Then wait another 24 hours and test again.

This will give you the tap water base line and you will know where you tape water sites.

If you mix any HOT water in your tank when you do your water changes you should do it on your hot water as well. I let my hot water run for 3 minutes and then get the temp to what I want it to be. Both my hot and cold runs the same o everything but .25 ammonia. I test it 2 times a year to make sure all is well with the city water as well as my hot water heater.

I test for everything. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates, GH, KH and PH. A few years back my PH went up from 7.1 to 7.6 so I had to prepare my fish the ph change.

To answer your question about the fishless cycle. If you cycle at one PPM of ammonia then it will only be cycled for that bio load. If you do it for 5 PPM then you will be able to fully stock your tank when you are done. No mini cycles along the way.
 
I'm so confused. It would take a massive amount of Aqua Plus to get ammonia to zero. I bought some Prime for comparison with the same result.

Now I noticed that my pH is really high out of the tap. I swear I have tested it before with a different result. Anyway, it's high now but it's fine in my two cycled tanks. It's also fine in the uncycled holding tank that contains a single apple snail for which I do a 90% water change every day. So.....how the heck does the pH go down in a tank that I change 90% of the water in every day, that is uncycled?

I tested tap water plus Aqua Plus (normal proportions) and the pH was still high, until I splashed some Aqua Plus into a small cup of water (way more Aqua Plus than indicated) and then the reading was the same as my cycled tanks.

So again, it seems to be taking a huge amount of water conditioner to condition the water.....and yet I have been doing a 10% water change daily on a newly cycled tank and a 90% water change daily on an uncycled tank, and their parameters are fine. My water could not have changed that drastically in a day.

I'm so confused.
 
This is weird. If you had 2 tanks that are fully cycled. Then I would maybe try taking some gravel and or filter media out fo the cycled tanks and added them to the 12 gallon. It's so strange if you are added tap water that is ready 1.0 of ammonia that you do have a mini cycle every time you do a water change.

I think the 90% water changes are not helping anything thing being you are added ammonia right back in. Are there any fish in this tank or just empty. Now the 6 gallon tank that has been running awhile how much water do you change in that tank? Even a gallon that would raise the ammonia levels, but not much.

If you have a tank with 1.0 of ammonia and you do a 90% water change you are never going to battle the ammonia level.

Have you thought about using a 50/50 RO mix? That would cut your ammonia level in half, it's a pretty small tank and with a 25% WC week it would only be 1.5 gallons of RO..

If it were me I’d try this. Try and get that 12 gallon cycled with ammonia or raw fish or something like that. When it’s cycled and you have 0 readings of ammonia, Nitrites do the 2 gallon water change and see what your ammonia level is. I’d be willing to be on a 12 gallon tank you are talking 2 weeks on the outside. With a tap water reading of 1.0 ammonia, I don’t think you’ll ever get this tank cycled without added fish and doing it the hard way or doing a fishless cycle.

How long have you let your tank sit before you tested? Some times the ammonia can drop after the waters been treated for a day or two.
 
I am doing all my testing with the API liquid test kits. I'm not terribly worried about the ammonia - it's small enough that a cycled filter takes it right out in 10-15 minutes. I'm more concerned with the pH since it is so completely different than usual. And I am concerned about WHY it suddenly takes 100x the water conditioner to get the same results I used to get. Obviously I can't use that much conditioner!
 
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