Cycling and cloudy water

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johnwduncan

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Aug 6, 2020
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Sorry a cycle can only be determined by testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. At which point did it become established a cycle has failed cause of cloudy water?
i had been adding dr tims for an ammonia source for quite a while. just stability didnt seem to be working is all. but hey i know more now than i knew then so when i set the tank up again it should go swimmingly.
 

tarheel96

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Sep 9, 2017
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If you've taken the tank down and no water is running through the media in your filter(s) then you will have to start over. Nitrifying bacteria die if they dry out.
 
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fishorama

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Dr. Tim's is a nitrifying bacteria starter NOT a source of ammonia. Next time try Dr. Tim's just a day or so before getting fish. I've never used it but I've heard it works easily...If I move I would strongly think about using it...if I didn't have friends that cycled media for me, like my last move ;)

Good luck John! Next time you'll know better & be ready for fish much faster. The more you know...the easier this hobby becomes :)

Don't forget to ask about your intended fish BEFORE you buy...we can help!
 

johnwduncan

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Aug 6, 2020
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Dr. Tim's is a nitrifying bacteria starter NOT a source of ammonia. Next time try Dr. Tim's just a day or so before getting fish. I've never used it but I've heard it works easily...If I move I would strongly think about using it...if I didn't have friends that cycled media for me, like my last move ;)

Good luck John! Next time you'll know better & be ready for fish much faster. The more you know...the easier this hobby becomes :)

Don't forget to ask about your intended fish BEFORE you buy...we can help!
i have a bottle of dr tims ammonium chloride. i bought some fluval biological enhancer for next time. ty for the input. its very helpful.
 
Apr 2, 2002
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Fluval is not much better than Stability. Almost none of the starter products will contain Nitrospira. Use either Dr, Tim's One and Only or tetra's Safe Start. Both contain live Nitrospira.

Not only do these bacteria oxidize nitrite, but recent science discovered they are able to oxidize ammonia straight through to nitrate as well. This may well explain why studies have shown that there are a lot more Nitrospira than Nitrosomonas or Nitrosospira in cycled tanks. Without looking it up, I recall it is about 2% of the bacteria are the ammonia oxidizers and about 12%-15% are Nitrospira.

Need to see the science? here are papers one can read the full study for free. You can also see Abstracts only for more papers if you click Clear All to change the setting at the top of the page where it says" Filters applied: Free full text. Clear All
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?filter=simsearch2.ffrft&linkname=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=26610025
 

johnwduncan

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Aug 6, 2020
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Fluval is not much better than Stability. Almost none of the starter products will contain Nitrospira. Use either Dr, Tim's One and Only or tetra's Safe Start. Both contain live Nitrospira.

Not only do these bacteria oxidize nitrite, but recent science discovered they are able to oxidize ammonia straight through to nitrate as well. This may well explain why studies have shown that there are a lot more Nitrospira than Nitrosomonas or Nitrosospira in cycled tanks. Without looking it up, I recall it is about 2% of the bacteria are the ammonia oxidizers and about 12%-15% are Nitrospira.

Need to see the science? here are papers one can read the full study for free. You can also see Abstracts only for more papers if you click Clear All to change the setting at the top of the page where it says" Filters applied: Free full text. Clear All
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?filter=simsearch2.ffrft&linkname=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=26610025
So will Fluval Cycle actually cycle my tank?
 

fishorama

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I don't know, but just get what works, Dr. Tim's 1 & Only or Tetra Safe Start when you're days away from stocking!! Let's not have another thread of Stability (& now vs Fluval Cycle). Get what works & use it according to the directions!! Why try something that may or may not work? Go with a proven product or plan on a 6-8 week cycle...You've waited through floor refinishing, do you want to wait 2 more months? I don't & it's not my tank!...Does it save a couple $$? Or what? Why do you want to use some new (unproven) product? I'm sure I'm not the only 1 frustrated by your idea of yet another "cycling" idea (head bang!) Gah!
 
Apr 2, 2002
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What it boils down to is these are the facts as far as the most current science is concerned.

1. The nitrifying bacteria that end up in tanks have been identified, re-identified , confirmed and reconfirmed.

2. These bacteria do not forms spores. So any bacterial starter that contains spores does not contain the right bacteria.

3. There are several strains of bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite that are found in tanks. The ones in salt water and freshwater are different strains. So any starter product which states it works in salt and freshwater cannot contain the right bacteria.

4. Because of patents which are jointly held by Dr. Hovanec and the parent Company of Tetra, only their products can contain Nitrospira. Their products are Dr. Tim's One and Only (which comes in a salt and a fresh water variety) and SafeStart Plus which is a FW product. Any other product which contains live bacteria will contain Nitrobacter as a substitute for Nitrospira. This must replace the Nitrobacter for the cycle to be complete.

5. The bacteria live on hard surfaces all over a tank especially the top 1/2 inch or so of one's substrate. One can use filter squeezings or media as well as some substrate to seed a tank. This is less precise than using the battled bacteria because you cannot know how much bacteria is being added. However, it will definitely jump start a fishless cycle and reduce the time it takes to have a tank fully cycled. It is also less expensive than buying one o the two products above.

6. And then there is Caveat Emptor. Every maker claims their product works. However, if you cannot determine exactly what is in a specific product, it is more than likely that is because it is not what will colonize one a tank is actually cycled. Hoe can one use a product when they have no clue what is in it? Use some common sense,

7. The proof is in the pudding. The purpose of seeding bacteria in some form is to accelerate the cycle. How long any cycle might take is determined by how much of the two needed bacteria one has in a tank when they start to cycle it. Remember we are trying to get whatever is there when we start to double, the double again etc. until there are enough numbers that they can hold both ammonia and nitrite at undetectable levels.

8. The average fishless cycle where there are no live plants and no active seeding of bacteria takes 5-6 weeks. If one has actually jump started the process using the desired bacteria, that time will be shortened noticeably.

Given the proper sized bottle Dr. Tim's and some ammonia I can make any tank fully cycled and fully stocked in under a week and it only requires a single sddition of the product to do this. I defy readers here to do the same with any of the other products we have under discussion. The key factor here is not the presence of the ammonia oxidizers, rather it is the Nitrite oxidizers that matter. In a normal unaided cycle the bacteria colonize one after the other so first we see ammonia build up and then we have nitrite building up. Using the proper bacteria in a jump start means that, whatever amount of nitrite the ammonia bacteria present can create, there will be a commensurate number of nitrite bacteria present immediately to convert it to nitrate.

The hall marks of setting up a well planted tank, seeding bacteria from an established tank or using Dr. Tim's or SafeStart is that you should see little or no nitrite. In the well planted tank, especially a high light co2 added one, you may not ever see nitrate either.
 
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