Cycling disaster, start over?

[karna68]

I was cycling a 10g with 4 zebra danios, one by one they were dying. Discovered filter stopped working (submersible heater/filter) got that up and running and lost the last of the fish. I was doing water changes faithfully. Took a sample to the LFS (I know, I know, I'm working on getting my own test kit) and nitrates and nitrites were off the charts! The guy said that when we started the filter back up again it probably pumped a bunch of bacteria in the tank. We've decided to get a new filter but my question is, do I need to start over, can any of the bacteria in the old filter be used? What do I do at this point? I won't be putting any more fish in until it's cycled.

Edit to add:
Could I put some substrate from my 30g that's just about there <.25 ammonia?

 

[RISK2123]

I was cycling a 10g with 4 zebra danios, one by one they were dying. Discovered filter stopped working (submersible heater/filter) got that up and running and lost the last of the fish. I was doing water changes faithfully. Took a sample to the LFS (I know, I know, I'm working on getting my own test kit) and nitrates and nitrites were off the charts! The guy said that when we started the filter back up again it probably pumped a bunch of bacteria in the tank. We've decided to get a new filter but my question is, do I need to start over, can any of the bacteria in the old filter be used? What do I do at this point? I won't be putting any more fish in until it's cycled.

first and foremost... go USC =D

second, i would start over agian. by doing water changes while ur tank is cycling you restart the process over again or just set it back tremendously. fresh water doesnt have the essential bacteria u need, hence the cycling. throw some bio sphera in or some stress zyme and that will cut down the cycling time to half if not more.

 

[rsanz]

first and foremost... go USC =D

second, i would start over agian. by doing water changes while ur tank is cycling you restart the process over again or just set it back tremendously. fresh water doesnt have the essential bacteria u need, hence the cycling. throw some bio sphera in or some stress zyme and that will cut down the cycling time to half if not more.

That's a myth. It doesn't set back your cycle. The bacteria lives on the surfaces of your ornaments/plants/gravel. It doesn't float around in your water. In fact, if you're doing a fishy cycle, it's recommended that you do water changes to keep the ammonia at a tolerant level for your little friends.

As for your question, I'm really not sure what you should do. Wait for someone with more experience to respond.

Good luck!

 

[RISK2123]

That's a myth. It doesn't set back your cycle. The bacteria lives on the surfaces of your ornaments/plants/gravel. It doesn't float around in your water. In fact, if you're doing a fishy cycle, it's recommended that you do water changes to keep the ammonia at a tolerant level for your little friends.

As for your question, I'm really not sure what you should do. Wait for someone with more experience to respond.

Good luck!

a myth? y do we test our water then, we should be taking scrapings off our decor.

i guarantee its in the water. how would a tank with no decor or substrate cycle? such as MANY discus tanks. and for the most part cycling with fish is not recomended, as you can see the results are to unpredictable and you can lose far to many fish. imo any fish loss is not acceptable just to cycle a tank, but many people have different methods.

y would bacteria blooms cause ur water to get cloudy, if the bacteria is only on the plants, decor and substrate? u may want to read a little about cycling.

 

[Star_Rider]

testing the water is a way to check thas ammonia, nitrites and nitrates..you aren't measuring the bacteria when you test the water..you are testing the waste product from the bacteria. ammonia is consumed by one bacteria and produce nitrites(waste) which are consumed by another bacteria that produce nitrates(waste) in the final stage of the nitrogen cycle another bacteria(not easily produced in an aquarium) will consume nitrates.
most of the bacteria we see in the cycle are aerobic(atleast the last time I researched)
most of the bacteria fix themselves to items in the tank.(some will be freefloating) most of the bacteria fix to the filters in the tank.
some in the gravel some on the ornaments.if you have a ugf your whole media could potentially be a bio filter.
in those discus tanks they are bare bottom but they have filtration..usually in the form of a spnge filter..guess where most of the bacteria is ...yup..the sponge filter..and those same discus tanks..get frequent and fairly large water changes..
water changes and cycling should go hand in hand..you do water changes to keep the ammonia below .5 preferably .25 and when nitrites start spiking you wil do the same..change water add salt etc.(salt changes the osmotic pressure slowing uptake of nitrates by fish.
btw, bacterial blooms are cause by an imbalance in the tank usually an excess of nutrients check your ammonia levels as sometime this is an indication of bacteria die off. in any case, the bloom usually goes away when the bacteria colony sets up and get established in the tank and is able to catch up to the imbalance. generally these blooms are not harmfulto the fish.

 

[RISK2123]

bacteria is grown and maintained in the decor but that doesnt mean its not freefloating in the water. to say that changing ur water doesnt take away bacteria doesnt make sense if you understand the cycling process.

 

[Star_Rider]

the problem if you don't change the water..is the ammonia and or nitrites will buid up and may cause permanent damage to the fish.. since most of the beneficial bacteria resides inthe filter..changing the water will not remove most of the bacteria..yes some of it..but you need to determine where the trade off is.

you reduce the ammonia and nitrites but don't bring the count to 0 since you need ammonia and nitrite to feed the bacteria.


so it does make sense..if you kill all the fish when you cycle you will never cycle.

on to what you should do..you have a 30 gallon? is it cycled? why not wait till it's fully cycled..when you want to start up a new tank..take filter squeezins from the established tank to seed the new tank.

essentially since your fish are dead(danios) your cycle may also have suffered a big set back..adding new fish to this tank..will most likely result on problems for the new fish the danios had a chance to slowly acclimate the shock of the counts in your tank may not be good for new fish.

get the test kit..you'll need to test about every 12 hrs when you are cycling a tank.

 

[RISK2123]

the problem if you don't change the water..is the ammonia and or nitrites will buid up and may cause permanent damage to the fish.. since most of the beneficial bacteria resides inthe filter..changing the water will not remove most of the bacteria..yes some of it..but you need to determine where the trade off is.

you reduce the ammonia and nitrites but don't bring the count to 0 since you need ammonia and nitrite to feed the bacteria.


so it does make sense..if you kill all the fish when you cycle you will never cycle.

on to what you should do..you have a 30 gallon? is it cycled? why not wait till it's fully cycled..when you want to start up a new tank..take filter squeezins from the established tank to seed the new tank.

essentially since your fish are dead(danios) your cycle may also have suffered a big set back..adding new fish to this tank..will most likely result on problems for the new fish the danios had a chance to slowly acclimate the shock of the counts in your tank may not be good for new fish.

get the test kit..you'll need to test about every 12 hrs when you are cycling a tank.

i see what u mean, yeah on a tank with fish in it, the trade off makes sense. i am just not a fan of cycling a tank with fish in it. although it does work.

 

[Star_Rider]

many people aren't fans of live cycling( I call it) if you aren't careful you wind up dmaging or killing fish..it's a matter of perspective.

I do fish cycles(live cycles) when I have filter squeezins.. I cycled a tank with new discus in 4 days..the ammonia never rose above .25 and nitrites only lasted about 24-48 hrs.

but I added live bacteria from several filters over the span so kept live bacteria all the time.

since both bacteria reside at the same time..when you squeeze the filter you add both beneficial bacteria..when ammonia spikes you add more the bacteria consume the ammonia and nitrites start to rise I squeeze in more..in 1-2 days the tank is cycled..since I keep two filters running in most of my tanks I always seem to have an abundance of bacteria

that's why I recommend finish cycling the larger tank..once it gets an established cycle you can start cycling another tank..in the method I use.

 

[Yoemen]

hmm

There is little if any of the bacteria we need that can survive very well as free floaters. Changing out the water does not hurt your cycle, if a fishy you have to change water, and in the case of a stalled cycle, is ussually the best way to start it up again.

Bacteria live in the top levels of substrate(more if it is well areated), on the glass, on the surface of just about anything in the tank and of course the filter.