Well... SOMETHING is growing in the tub. Today I took a good look in there and it seems that there is some kind of brown stuff growing in there so I drained the water out and put fresh water/dechlorinator/ammonia in there.
Cycling my Bathtub!
- Thread starter Luca Brazzi
- Start date
If you are only feeding ammonia once per day, then yes, your bacterial colonies can grow larger (potentially) eating that large amount of ammonia vs the amount in a smaller container. It may be confusing, but let me try to explain:
If you need x amount of ammonia to get 5ppm in a 20 gal tank, then when you use 10x (10 times the amount of ammonia) to get 5ppm in your bathtub you will have 10 times the amount of food to eat (daily). Now I understand you will have to build up to adding this amount daily, but bear with me. With this 10x ammonia being eaten each day (and it WILL eventually be used up each day), you will have 10 times the amount of bacteria needed to eat that amount each day!
Now if you want to feed that same 20 gal tank x amount 10 different times per day, then you will STILL get 10 times the amount of bacteria (same amount as bathtub in example). Most of us have time to only add once or twice daily, I would assume.
I hope I didn't lose you guys. I dunno......makes sense to me
If you need x amount of ammonia to get 5ppm in a 20 gal tank, then when you use 10x (10 times the amount of ammonia) to get 5ppm in your bathtub you will have 10 times the amount of food to eat (daily). Now I understand you will have to build up to adding this amount daily, but bear with me. With this 10x ammonia being eaten each day (and it WILL eventually be used up each day), you will have 10 times the amount of bacteria needed to eat that amount each day!
Now if you want to feed that same 20 gal tank x amount 10 different times per day, then you will STILL get 10 times the amount of bacteria (same amount as bathtub in example). Most of us have time to only add once or twice daily, I would assume.
I hope I didn't lose you guys. I dunno......makes sense to me
Look at this from a different perspective. If ammonia is detectable, it means that it wasn't consumed entirely by bacteria and is still available for them. So, if you MAINTAIN presence of ammonia in ANY volume, your colony will continue growing. Makes sense?
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Good point......that's definately a good way of growing bacteria. NOw I just hope you can afford to test for ammonia 50 times a day!
Its been 2 weeks since I started this, and I think Ive made a mistake. When I drained and refilled the tub, I reloaded with ammonia/dechorinator. I added what I thought was too much ammonia, however, after testing, I realized that The amount I added this time, was the appropriate amount to get 5ppm. So that means that for 2 weeks Ive been at less than 5ppm ammonia.
Darn card based color charts!
Does anyone think that since my tub is obviously supporting SOME kind of life (the brown stuff), that I should be able to get bacteria growth?
Darn card based color charts!
Does anyone think that since my tub is obviously supporting SOME kind of life (the brown stuff), that I should be able to get bacteria growth?
Sumpin'fishy,
How about if the total amount of ammonia in a cycling container is sufficient to feed the given colonies till the next day...or next 48 hours...? Then you don't need to check it 50 times a day, correct?
We both know that your "if you feed it once a day..." or "if you can afford to check it 50 times a day..." are just extreme examples of an imaginable situation. You could've say, "if you feed it only once a week" or "...every hour", and it would be equally suitable for other setups.
In a real life, when you cycle your filter in a fish tank those 3-7 ppms will last for more than a day, and only by the very end of the cycling (when the colonies are huge) the ammonia consumption rate may become high enough to consume all of it in a day or so. We're talking about regular real life filters and tanks of the size roughly matching the filter.
A balance/common sense is the answer, I guess.
Luca,
Again, if your ammonia was more than zero, the colonies continued growing. The rate of growing may somewhat depend on the concentration, but it's neither obvious nor simple. Higher concentration don't always mean higher growth rate (and, in fact, may mean completely opposite). So don't worry.
How about if the total amount of ammonia in a cycling container is sufficient to feed the given colonies till the next day...or next 48 hours...? Then you don't need to check it 50 times a day, correct?
We both know that your "if you feed it once a day..." or "if you can afford to check it 50 times a day..." are just extreme examples of an imaginable situation. You could've say, "if you feed it only once a week" or "...every hour", and it would be equally suitable for other setups.
In a real life, when you cycle your filter in a fish tank those 3-7 ppms will last for more than a day, and only by the very end of the cycling (when the colonies are huge) the ammonia consumption rate may become high enough to consume all of it in a day or so. We're talking about regular real life filters and tanks of the size roughly matching the filter.
A balance/common sense is the answer, I guess.
Luca,
Again, if your ammonia was more than zero, the colonies continued growing. The rate of growing may somewhat depend on the concentration, but it's neither obvious nor simple. Higher concentration don't always mean higher growth rate (and, in fact, may mean completely opposite). So don't worry.
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Well I finished building my Sump (see Building a Sump Thread in Freshwater DIY). So once the acrylic dries I should be able to move the completed biotower from the tub and into the sump, then fill the sump with water/decholrinator/ammonia, and continue cycling the media there. I am definitely seeing some nitrites though. I did another nitrate test and although I cant seem to match it up with anything on the color card, there is a definite difference in color between a sample from the tub and a sample from the faucet. I know it hasnt spiked yet because I still read 5ppm ammonia, but they must be growing. I have at least another week or 2 before I can build my main 75 gallon tank (havent gotten those darn bulkhead fittings yet) so by the time I get it built the bacteria should be established.
I do have one thought about all this though...
The bacteria colony I will end up with through fishless cycling will more than likely be ableto support a load much greater than my initial fish load, unless I go out and by a BUNCH of fish. This means that the ammonia produced by the fish I do put in will not be enough to fully support the entire bacteria colony, so some bacteria will die off until an equilibrium is established. Now... once this bacteria equilibrium is reached... adding new fish will require a reestablishment of the equilibrium just as would happen with a fishy cycle (adding a few fish at a time).
So my question is this...
If a person is not planning to fully stock a tank after cycling the media... Why do a fishless (as stated above if you dont fully stock, the bacteria will die off anyway)? Just for the sake of not putting the cycling fish used in a fishy cycle through the stress? It makes sense for me to do a fishless because I don't have a tank yet, but for most NORMAL folks who get a tank and filter upfront...
And one question...
Is there anyway to continue to support my larger than needed bateria colony? Maybe add ammonia to the tank even AFTER I put some fish in there?
I do have one thought about all this though...
The bacteria colony I will end up with through fishless cycling will more than likely be ableto support a load much greater than my initial fish load, unless I go out and by a BUNCH of fish. This means that the ammonia produced by the fish I do put in will not be enough to fully support the entire bacteria colony, so some bacteria will die off until an equilibrium is established. Now... once this bacteria equilibrium is reached... adding new fish will require a reestablishment of the equilibrium just as would happen with a fishy cycle (adding a few fish at a time).
So my question is this...
If a person is not planning to fully stock a tank after cycling the media... Why do a fishless (as stated above if you dont fully stock, the bacteria will die off anyway)? Just for the sake of not putting the cycling fish used in a fishy cycle through the stress? It makes sense for me to do a fishless because I don't have a tank yet, but for most NORMAL folks who get a tank and filter upfront...
And one question...
Is there anyway to continue to support my larger than needed bateria colony? Maybe add ammonia to the tank even AFTER I put some fish in there?
No!!! You cannot add ammonia when you have fish in. You'd just poison your fish.
If you don't add a full complement of fish after the cycling is finished, you will need to allow some time for the biofilter to catch up after each additions thereafter. Exactly like it happens in any ESTABLISHED tank.
However, unless the initial load is ridiculously low (as in the beginning of regular ("fishful") cyclings), such mini-cyclings are short and not prominent. Think of it this way: if bacteria doubles in 24 hours, and you have a million of them, you'll may get two million tomorrow. However, if you start with 10 bacteria, you may only have 20 a day after. An initial capital so to speak. So, if you start with 30 fish, you may add 3-5 of new ones every week of so thereafter. If you start with two fish and allow the major part of the filter to die off (which doesn't happen overnight, by the way), don't expect to double their number weekly without seeing noticable picks of the wastes.
If you don't add a full complement of fish after the cycling is finished, you will need to allow some time for the biofilter to catch up after each additions thereafter. Exactly like it happens in any ESTABLISHED tank.
However, unless the initial load is ridiculously low (as in the beginning of regular ("fishful") cyclings), such mini-cyclings are short and not prominent. Think of it this way: if bacteria doubles in 24 hours, and you have a million of them, you'll may get two million tomorrow. However, if you start with 10 bacteria, you may only have 20 a day after. An initial capital so to speak. So, if you start with 30 fish, you may add 3-5 of new ones every week of so thereafter. If you start with two fish and allow the major part of the filter to die off (which doesn't happen overnight, by the way), don't expect to double their number weekly without seeing noticable picks of the wastes.
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Ok...
Now I have my completed sump ~20 gallons, and biotower (holds the bioballs) in the tub (See my Building a Sump post in Freshwater DIY). I did this because I recently built this sump out of acrylic and if it leaks it will leak into the tub.
Anyway, I still have a similar setup without the showerhead. The Mag Drive 500 is in the sump, and is pumping water directly into the biotower. The sump is about half full, and the bioballs are not submerged.
My question is... does anyone think that the plumbers putty I used to keep the tub drain from leaking water, or anything else that was in the tub, will keep bacteria from growing now that everything is completely isolated in the sump?
Its been over 2 weeks and still no nirtrite spike, although I can definitely see a difference when I do a nitrite test on the water from the tub, and the water from a faucet so SOMETHING is happening.
Could my bioballs be contaminated? Should I dump them and get new ones?
Now I have my completed sump ~20 gallons, and biotower (holds the bioballs) in the tub (See my Building a Sump post in Freshwater DIY). I did this because I recently built this sump out of acrylic and if it leaks it will leak into the tub.
Anyway, I still have a similar setup without the showerhead. The Mag Drive 500 is in the sump, and is pumping water directly into the biotower. The sump is about half full, and the bioballs are not submerged.
My question is... does anyone think that the plumbers putty I used to keep the tub drain from leaking water, or anything else that was in the tub, will keep bacteria from growing now that everything is completely isolated in the sump?
Its been over 2 weeks and still no nirtrite spike, although I can definitely see a difference when I do a nitrite test on the water from the tub, and the water from a faucet so SOMETHING is happening.
Could my bioballs be contaminated? Should I dump them and get new ones?
