Deadly Toxic Reactions

swany

Swan Crane Svc.
OK. This is kind of a long story. But it is very puzzling to me.

My friend buys 46g bow and furnishes with onyx sand substrate, petrified wood and lots of plants. Her hard/high ph well water goes through an industrial strength carbon filter and water softener before adding to the tank. She does fishless cycling, goes through the bad odor stage, and has lots and lots of algae all over everything. Once all ammonia nitrites/nitrates are at 0, she adds fish. She is VERY unhappy about the algae. Purchases 2 algae eaters, one died, 3 flying foxes (thinking they were SAE's), 2 died; the 3 silver hatchets, 2 marble hatchets, 3 tri-color sharks and 3 jewel tetras are fine.

Next day everyone is settled and happy. Tri-color sharks love algae, BTW. Thinking that the deaths are to be blamed on bad stock/choices, she purchases one more algae eater which does fine. She places in her african driftwood which had been soaking for over 3 weeks. We add 2 glo-fish, three guppies and 2 mature SAEs. These last 7 fish were from my tank and did very well.

The next day, I gave her 5 more glo-fish and 9 very young 1/2" guppies. They show no signs of stress. None of the fish are showing any stress and are all eating and interacting happily.

Here is the puzzler (or maybe the answer). She does a 50% water change to help alleviate the greeness of the tank. 3 hours later and after cleaning her house and spraying Febreeze around due to incoming guests. (the tank top is very tight, almost no airgap). One guppy is dead, one guppy is swimming end over end, one SAE is laying on its back gasping. The glo-fish are now glowing green but are fine. All the other fish are fine.

She takes the guppy and SAE and puts them in her Qtank. The guppy recovers. I take both my SAE's back home (now they have to re-adjust back to my water). But it appears as though the SAE has recovered. He layed on his back for quite a while but now is turned over and is beginning to swim around again.

I have done 50% water changes in my tank with no problems ever. In fact, I did four 50% water changes in one week with no problems. She only lives four houses from me. However, I do not have any filtration/softening on my well.

She had similar poisoning in her Qtank. MTS have never been able to survive in either of her tanks.

Thanks for reading this long story. My question is WHAT IS POISONING HER FISH?
 
I'm no expert like a lot of the folks on this board, but I would be concerned about the water softener and the use of Febreze. I know that water softeners add salt to the water, but I'm not sure how much or what effect that might have.

I might also take a closer look at the ammonia she uses for her fishless cycle and check to see if there are detergents in it. What does she clean the aquarium glass with? Is she doing anything with her fishtank after cleaning her house? (Residual chemicals on her hands maybe?)
 
I would also make sure the filter is covered and not just the tank. I would also wonder like others said the chems in the water filter system. I would also test the water before and after going into the tank you may need to take it to a college or agriculture dept and tell them the problems and symptoms you are expierencing. some colleges will have someone on hand that would test it for free for you.
I would check for salt, and see what else is used in the water softener some use strange chems to soften the water.
 
Also, I wonder about the reliablity of her test kits. A tank with an algae problem will definitely have some sort of nitrate reading, probably greater than 20 ppm.

And what about water temp with the changes? and pH between the tank and the water straight out of filtering?
 
Thank you for all your responses. We are still trying to get to the root of the problem. Could be the softener or maybe not. We checked the pH in the tank vs from the tap, which was the same. It is still interesting that only a couple of fish were instantly affected and others (the guppies) died the next day.
 
The glo-fish are now glowing green but are fine.


Very interesting...........these fish were supposedly developed with the purpose of checking for toxins in water supplies.

They used to glow red correct? Could you post some pics? I would like to see the 'green glow'.

Thanks and HTH,
Serg
 
Finally - an answer!!

My friend and I were finally able to figure out what went wrong in the tank!! Yeah!!

It is the Onyx sand substrate. According to the manufacturer, it has a slight buffering capacity. The water's pH is already high, but the sand made it go off the test kit's chart. When she tested the pH after telling her there could be a difference, it was after the water change so there was little difference. However, a week later, she calls me up and tells me that the pH is off the chart. It is then that we figured out that the 50% water change made the pH drop suddenly, causing fish to either stress out and die suddenly or die by the next day.

We're both kind of wondering if the buffering capacity ever diminishes. Also, if doing a 25% water change every day is the best way to manage this. Or should we do it chemically with a product like pH Down?
 
honestly if the water is stable in the tank itself I would not mess with the chemicals, I would check and see what the ph of the buffering of the sand is I doubt it would be too high over say ph of 8 which is typical of salt water so it should not move it too high or over its natural ph buffer. The best thing would be if you want to change the ph is to change the substrate. THe substrate will eventually lose its buffering abliity but I do not know how long that will be could be quite some time. I would think that just changing the substrate and maybe even cut the volume of water being changed would be a good thing to do. I would do 2 or more smaller changes to change the same amount of water so that the ph does not swing too much
 
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