Deaths after substrate change

[Byron Amazonas]

I don't see how that would work.

You'd need to "feed" your bag of gravel with ammonia and the only way to verify it's working would be to measure the liquid for PPM of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

I agree. While there may be "some" ammonia (and possibly nitrite) in the water from an established tank, these levels would be very low (assuming the tank is biologically balanced). Bacteria might appear in the substrate bag, but it would be so minimal as to be inconsequential. There are safer and more reliable ways of "seeding" new tanks.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

In a cycled tank, either the nitrite or nitrate should be slightly higher than 0 ppm, right? I can never remember which one it is.

As dougall said, nitrite should (= must) be at zero. Nitrate can vary, depending upon the biology. Many with well-planted tanks will have zero nitrate, and this is good. It is now known that nitrate does negatively affect fish; the specific level and duration is still uncertain, but there is no doubt that nitrate does have an impact on the physiology of freshwater fish at both the higher it is and the longer they are exposed. So keeping it as low as possible is always wise. Most knowledgeable sources are now suggesting 10 ppm at the upper limit, and never above 20 ppm. My planted tanks are fairly well stocked with fish, and according to the API nitrate kit the tanks run in the zero to 5 ppm range.

Nitrate is common to indicate "cycling" has completed, but with plenty of plants this shouldn't occur to any extent (as dougall noted). The plants are capable of taking up ammonia faster than bacteria, and obviously nitrite is not a by-product of this, thus no nitrate either. Some bacteria will still appear with plants and use some of the ammonia, but it should not be sufficient to register above zero with ammonia or nitrite.

Byron.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

I have a new theory. Bc no one died in my 15 which also had the same substrate added, and I have deaths in a third tank now which didn't have the substrate added, and the rainbow fish died off one by one, and my test kit wasn't reading toxicity for any of the levels, I now believe it to be a viral infection that's spread from tank to tank through cleaning equipment. It must have started with those rainbow fish that guy never refunded me for...

And there's nothing I can do as my fish keep dying on me.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

This happens. I have transferred internal protozoan from one tank to another. And of course other disease moves similarly on wet objects.

To offer some assistance, hopefully, on the deaths. If this is indeed viral, there is no cure. But it could be some internal protozoan, and this can be stopped with proper medication, preferably via food. Metronidazole has worked for me. You can buy fish foods already containing this, or make your own by adding metronidazole powder to flake foods. It may be worth trying.

Byron.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

I seem to be taking over this thread, without intending it. But I just got to it, and there have been several issues brought forth along the way. I promise, this is my last new one.

Bacteria in the filter and substrate was discussed earlier on, and I agree with those advocating the substrate rather than the filter hosting more. Assuming the tank is balanced and established, there should (and will) be significantly more bacteria/archaea in the substrate. The nitrifying agents are working along with other types, and the substrate offers considerably more opportunity for this.

I say bacteria/archaea because recent studies are showing that it is not nitrifying bacteria but nitrifying archaea that are present in an established freshwater aquarium. From what I have found so far, the physical two-stage process is similar, but there may be differences in how archaea operate compared to bacteria.

Byron.

 

[captmicha]

I seem to be taking over this thread, without intending it.

Shut up! You're not! I appreciate the help, so keep commenting.

I definitely think the substrate played a part in that it may have stressed some fish and lowered their immune defenses enough for the virus to take over.

The issue was, because my test kit is getting old, I thought it was inaccurate and not properly reflecting ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This turns out not to be the case after all since doing a bunch of different tests with different results. So there wasn't any toxicity of ammonia, nitrate or nitrate. They were at zero PPM or there-abouts even though the sand was unseeded and it was an all at once change to the tank.

 

[Byron Amazonas]

Shut up! You're not! I appreciate the help, so keep commenting.

I definitely think the substrate played a part in that it may have stressed some fish and lowered their immune defenses enough for the virus to take over.

The issue was, because my test kit is getting old, I thought it was inaccurate and not properly reflecting ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. This turns out not to be the case after all since doing a bunch of different tests with different results. So there wasn't any toxicity of ammonia, nitrate or nitrate. They were at zero PPM or there-abouts even though the sand was unseeded and it was an all at once change to the tank.

This is as I would have expected, as these are planted tanks. Over the past 2-3 years, I have torn down and re-set six of my seven tanks, replacing the various substrates with play sand. I had all the plants of course, plus the several chunks of wood which naturally would be colonized with bacteria/archaea. Each tank was done in a day, with the fish going back in. I don't even bother testing for ammonia and nitrite now, as I know from experience doing this over the past 15+ years that with the plants and wood there will not be a problem. When I did test both substances were zero. Plants really are a blessing in so many ways.

You are correct on the stress aspect too, though I would venture it was not from the substrate issue but just the business of changing substrates. I don't know if you removed the fish, but it is good to do so when this major of an upheaval is intended. The stress of netting the fish into a temporary tank (having water from the main tank, and with the wood and some plants tossed in) is much less than what they go through if you are crashing around inside their environment. But either way, stress is stress and it weakens fish to some degree.

Byron.