Dentists Aquarium: What would you do?

Fishfriend1

Fishfriend1

Fishlover Extraordinaire
Dec 11, 2009
3,958
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Southeastern PA
Real Name
Mr. Palmer
So, I went to the dentists to get 2 of my 9 new fillings in (groan, 4 shots of Nova still didn't take away all the pain...) and I couldn't help but notice their large, rather overstocked, badly stocked, and (AFAIK) under filtered tank. IDK what the size is, but it looked to be about 50(min)-70(max) gallons total.

The stocking for the tank is as follows:
-8 small angels (3in tall, 2in long)
-8-10 bleeding heart tetras (1in long)
-6-10 neon tetras (1/2in long - 1in long)
-2 Red Parrots (4in long, 3in long)
-8 Unknown cats, look like Striped Raphael (about 2-3in long)
-1 pleco (1 and 1/2ft long!)
So 33 fish total. If the pleco only counts as one. Which, IMO, it doesn't. Counts as 3-4 all by itself, IMO, so 37 fish total.

No filtration that I could see. One airstone, no lights, fake plants, fake sunken ship, small heater (have the same thing in my 30gal).

Now, the pleco alone is way to much for the tank to handle, size wise only. Add the angels, oh my oh my! Plus the Striped Raphael Cats and you have 3 fish right there that will probably outgrow the tank because of their needs or aggression. The neons will become Angelfish food, and the bleeding hearts will just end up suffering for it all. Finally, the Red Parrots will almost certainly die...

THe signs were already showing. One of the angels was swimming funny, the pleco was breathing very heavily (may be natural, IDK), and one of the Red Parrots seems to have difficulty swimming upright, the smaller one. It stood on it's nose for a few moments and seemed to struggle to get back to the level. That was sad, that was. The cats were being nipped by something (maybe each other?) and I think the angels were as well.

This isn't the first time I've seen their tank, but every time I go it has a new set of resident. Last time it was a tank full of oscars, plus the pleco. Before that, they had (I think) a number of fancy goldfish. The pleco was there back then as well, so maybe they just moved the fish out. IMO, the tank probably crashed and they just wanted to get some pretty fish, and the pleco just managed to survive all that.

Now, I do not know that actual gallonage of the tank, or if it does indeed have a filter (I didn't see anything that looked even slightly like a filter or filter intake) but I do know that the fish will outgrow the tank, and are incompatible. (angel + neon = full bellied angel)

Here is what Aquadvisor had to say if the tank is only 45-50gallons:

Note: Common Pleco needs driftwood.
Warning: Common Pleco is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 18 inches.
Warning: Neon Tetra may become food for Angelfish.
Warning: Stripped Raphael Catish is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 7.5 inches.
Warning: Blood Parrot is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 8 inches.
Warning: Your selected species may eventually require 795% of your aquarium space. You may need to deal with territorial aggressions later on. Try removing some of (Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Pterophyllum scalare, Platydoras armatulus, Blood Parrot) or get a larger tank.

Your tank is too small - it will require massive amount of frequent water changes each week!

Your aquarium stocking level is 555%.
Your tank is seriously overstocked. Unless this setup is temporary, you should consider a larger tank.

Link
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Here is what Aquadvisor says if the tank is 67 gallons (what I think the max size of tank is)

Note: Common Pleco needs driftwood.
Warning: Common Pleco is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 18 inches.
Warning: Neon Tetra may become food for Angelfish.
Warning: Blood Parrot is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 8 inches.
Warning: Your selected species may eventually require 663% of your aquarium space. You may need to deal with territorial aggressions later on. Try removing some of (Pterygoplichthys pardalis, Pterophyllum scalare, Platydoras armatulus, Blood Parrot) or get a larger tank.

Your tank is too small - it will require massive amount of frequent water changes each week!

Your aquarium stocking level is 462%.
Your tank is seriously overstocked. Unless this setup is temporary, you should consider a larger tank.

Link
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I, being a quiet, non-agressive person, just walked out the door and started on a plan to find a way to talk to them about getting the fish removed/rehomed. I would even volunteer to buy the fish from them and set their tank up so the fish WON"T die. Haven't actually spoken with them, but that may come soon.

I can't keep anything but the tetras, but I can rehome all the fish. Course, that's assuming the dentists place actually gives a ****, which they probably don't (unless the fish cost to much to keep).

So, what would you do?
 
(Just to preempt, I really hope no one is going to derail your thread and talk about how you're in no position to be advising people on their tanks...)

It's a really nice thought for you to want to help them. Before doing anything, I have a few questions.

1) How does the staff seem? Friendly? If the people who work there are approachable, then there is hope, but if they aren't you are probably not going to be able to get through to them. Unfortunately, you are going to have a hard time getting anyone to listen to you because of your age. That can be gotten around though (see below)

2) Do they have a Facebook page or anything? Check and see. It would be easier to talk to them via written communication. Even sending them a letter might be better than having a face to face talk, especially if the people don't seem like they like to chit chat.

I would probably do this, if I were in your situation. I would write this out just to practice what I'm going to say and maybe communicate it to them via written means.

"Hi, my name is Travis ______. I've been in your office a few times getting fillings and every time I'm there, I can't help but notice your aquarium. I am a huge fan of aquariums and have several tanks myself. I would love to give you a hand with yours if you need any help. (I noticed some of the fish looked like they were having health problems on my last visit.) My dream is to work at a fish store one day and it would be a great experience for me, so I would be happy to do it for free. Just email me or call me if you're interested. Thanks!"


I would have tried to crouch down and look at the water surface to see if it was rippling at all. If they truly don't have a filter, a stagnant aquarium is going to be smelly, so it's hard for me to believe NOTHING is filtering it!

Hopefully, they are clueless and desperate for help and will accept yours, but I'm afraid it's equally possible (if not more so) that they just don't care. If they're buying expensive fish like blood parrots, I can't imagine they're trying to save money by not getting a filter.
 
platytudes said:
(Just to preempt, I really hope no one is going to derail your thread and talk about how you're in no position to be advising people on their tanks...)

It's a really nice thought for you to want to help them. Before doing anything, I have a few questions.

1) How does the staff seem? Friendly? If the people who work there are approachable, then there is hope, but if they aren't you are probably not going to be able to get through to them. Unfortunately, you are going to have a hard time getting anyone to listen to you because of your age. That can be gotten around though (see below)

2) Do they have a Facebook page or anything? Check and see. It would be easier to talk to them via written communication. Even sending them a letter might be better than having a face to face talk, especially if the people don't seem like they like to chit chat.

I would probably do this, if I were in your situation. I would write this out just to practice what I'm going to say and maybe communicate it to them via written means.

"Hi, my name is Travis ______. I've been in your office a few times getting fillings and every time I'm there, I can't help but notice your aquarium. I am a huge fan of aquariums and have several tanks myself. I would love to give you a hand with yours if you need any help. (I noticed some of the fish looked like they were having health problems on my last visit.) My dream is to work at a fish store one day and it would be a great experience for me, so I would be happy to do it for free. Just email me or call me if you're interested. Thanks!"


I would have tried to crouch down and look at the water surface to see if it was rippling at all. If they truly don't have a filter, a stagnant aquarium is going to be smelly, so it's hard for me to believe NOTHING is filtering it!

Hopefully, they are clueless and desperate for help and will accept yours, but I'm afraid it's equally possible (if not more so) that they just don't care. If they're buying expensive fish like blood parrots, I can't imagine they're trying to save money by not getting a filter.
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1) The staff are decently friendly. It's not like they eat little kids or anything, and they do seem to care about their patients, but they also seemed somewhat rushed, so IDK how much they will actually care about the fish... either way, next time I go I'll make note to see the friendliness.

2) I wish I had a facebook page now... lol. I'll see what I can do about a written letter or equivalent about the tank.

I think I forgot to mention, the tank is an in wall tank, and the water level was about 1in below the top part of the viewing area. The tank didn't smell, but I wasn't really looking for smells or rippling on the tank, just at the fish and noticing how they weren't compatible. Then my mind started to go down that path and i tried to memories the fish I saw, and so on... Next time I go for fillings (next friday) I'll check out smell and for rippling on the water surface.

lol, fingers crossed that they are in dire need of someone to give the fish too :) I hope they will listen, at least enough to lessen the stocking level... So, fingers crossed!
 
If it's in wall and you couldn't find a filter it's probably a canister of some type in the room behind the wall, or a HOTB power filter hidden where you couldn't see it. I'll reiterate what others said in that it's very unlikely it's unfiltered -- without a ton of live plants (like more than would fit in that tank) at those stocking levels they'd be replacing everything on a weekly basis from ammonia / nitrite / nitrate poisoning alone without two 50% water changes a day. I can guarantee you that isn't happening.

I do agree it seems crazy overstocked, even though I'm one of the "aquaadvisor is a joke" crowd. I tend to overstock myself and have kept some odd / generally not recommended pairings in my tanks, but nothing as crazy / stupid as what you're describing.

The pleco... as long as it's 2x his length in length and at least his length in width I wouldn't cry myself to sleep about it. They're mellow generally and don't care to "prowl" so if there's turning space and driftwood to hang on to (which there doesn't seem to be in the tank as described, granted, in which case get him out) they're fine.

As for the blood parrots, those should come out immediately and be returned or rehomed, since they could easily reach 3-5x their current size (10") with time and present a big bio-load from being messy feeders. Do note it's possible the one you saw having swimming problems wasn't sick but suffers from a deformed swim bladder common in blood parrots (they're hybrids and generally a "bad idea" all around IMO due to various deformities).

Some of the cats (assuming they are Striped Raphael or similarly sized breeds) can stay, maybe two or three, but 8 is way, way too many. They'll hit 3-6" eventually.

3 angels would be tops if the tank is on the small end of your guess scale of volume, maybe 5 if it's a 55 or larger, and that would be pushing it. As you said the Neons will be food eventually. Pull them out of you want to avoid that. The other tetras would be fine if you get some of the other, bigger, more idiotic fish choices out.

If I were you, I'd try to find out where they got the fish and suggest the excess stock be returned for credit, /not/ that you take them, with the possible exception of the neons which are really inexpensive. You should couch this in "I'm saving you money, frustration, embarrassment (no one wants to see dead fish in a display tank) and time" terms, not "look at what you're doing to them, that's a horrible environment, they're doomed to die" terms. People don't want to hear that they screwed up big time, but they do want to save money. People don't want to feel guilty, but they do want to avoid disaster and embarrassment. Make it clear to them (in gentle, non-accusatory fashion) that dealing with the problem is both fairly easy and in their best interests. Then you should succeed. Wording is going to be key, here.
 
Just make sure you know what you're getting into, you'll have one very mad dentist if you mess up.
 
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Thanks for the advice. I agree, the tank most likely has a filter, but I didn't see anything that even remotely remind me of an intake/output for any kind of filter I've ever seen.

The pleco was about 1 and 1/2ft long, the tank itself was only 1ft wide... so he's a no go. I was thinking a Bristlenose, as they stay much smaller then a common pleco. I know absolutely nothing about the parrots or cats, and little about the angels (besides size and aggression, anyway).

My plan was this: Remove the cats, pleco, neons, and 4-5 of the angels. Add a bristlenose pleco and some more of the Bleeding Hearts (maybe). I would probably be happy to pay for the added Bpleco, if they didn't want to. Course, if the pleco (which I admit I know little abut myself) does need driftwood to survive... I don't think the tank will be getting a Bpleco. Maybe some corys instead. All of this will, of course, come out of my pocket, as I doubt they want to spend money on new fish either way.

So, what I was gonna say it as was basically this:

"So, I was looking at your tank, and I couldn't help but notice that it seemed to be overstocked. I'm a big aquarist, I love fish in all forms, and I have a decent amount of experience with fishkeeping. Your tank is very nice, but there are a few things I noticed, things which will likely cause the tank to crash and most of the fish to end up dead. Considering the size of some of those fish that would be a decent amount of money down the drain right there, and I really don't want that to happen. After all, why lose money and fish when you can save both?"

Then I would explain how they could do that (if they were responsive to the above). If not, well... poor fishes, and I doubt I would go back to that dentists again. So, whadda think? Would that be too aggressive or rude? I'm not a very social person, so I don't really know how rude that could be taken as...

~Travis
 
user_name said:
Just make sure you know what you're getting into, you'll have one very pissed off dentist if you mess up.
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well, its one of those larger places with about 20 or so dentists, a number of secretaries, and even a few doctors. Basically, a doctors office but with dentists instead... lol, I will try not to tick anyone off though.
 
I'd refuse to brush my teeth until they got the tank straightened out. That'll learn 'em.
 
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Dont anger the man that drills your mouth

Have a friendly attitude but if whoever you talk to shoots you down as soon as you bring it up, dont push too hard and risk angering beyond the point of listening.
Ask if they have someone who comes in and perform some sort of maintenance on the tank, offer to do it for free cleanings. You clean their tank, they clean your teeth :D
 
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