Discus Advice regarding stress

[golfproinlexky]

I'm new to discus and have had the five in my tank for about a month now. Two of the five show very nice color most of the time, but the other three tend to look darker and more stressed. They are all swimming in open water and aggressively eating the frozen foods I'm putting in the tank. The water parameters are consistently 0 ammonia-0 nitrite-10 or less nitrate and ph 7.2 at 84 degrees. I've been doing bi-weekly 25% water changes. Everything else about the fish look healthy (breathing, no rubbing, not hiding/shy, not staying low or high in the tank). The color will generally improve after feeding (2-3 times per day), but they seem to eat until there is just a little bit left in the tank. Maybe I'm just too paranoid because this is my first go around with discus, but I want to be successful.

My question is more about compatability than anything, as it is one of the only variables left.... How do flagfish mix with discus? Also, some people say no way to clown loaches, while others (including the breeder I purchased from) say this is no problem. Which is it? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Here are some pictures to show the good and the not so good...

 

[MIKE D]

Well with juvenile discus it is advised that you keep the light off in the tank for a few weeks so they dont get stressed out. Also with juveniles its best to keep the tank temp between 88-90 degrees. as for compatability I dont know. Im still green when it comes to keeping discus.

 

[Lupin]

My question is more about compatability than anything, as it is one of the only variables left.... How do flagfish mix with discus? Also, some people say no way to clown loaches, while others (including the breeder I purchased from) say this is no problem. Which is it? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Do not attempt to mix discus with flagfish. There is a possibility of sucking their slime coat aside from being far too active. Neither would I recommend clown loaches with discus. Discus are easily stressed when the loaches try to hover all over them in their curiosity to approach the discus.

 

[SoCalDiscus]

You may want to try lowering your pH slowly to below 7. Generally, discus are kept in 6.5 - 7.0 range. Also, check your water hardness. You want low KH and GH. Simplydiscus.com is a great resource. These are generalities... as you will find out while looking for advice there are always those who have been successful with something different.

The dark one(s) in your pics look like they are wasting. They very likely have some sort of internal parasite. A closeup shot of the dark ones would help others in verifying that. Compare the bright fish with the dark ones and look at the differences in anatomy. It looked to me like they might be a little "pinched" behind and above the eye. This is where mine thin out if they are sick. Prazipro as a bath works to help de-worm and take care of some flukes. So, you might want to think about that. But read up on it, because I know you can't use it with corys, and I'm not sure about loaches. Another thing you might try is medicated food. I have used Gel-Tek Ultracure PX to soak my food. This has several ingredients that will help with internal parasites. If you see white feces, this is a definate problem... but you can still have parasites without the white feces. Read up on hexamita if you are going to own discus.

Post updates,
-Eric

 

[pinkertd]

Your tank looks very nice! Here's my two cents as an experienced discus keeper, as SoCal says, different people do some things different but are still successful. First of all, don't mess with your ph. 7.2 is perfectly fine. I keep mine in 7.6 hard water. They thrive, spawn, and fry hatch all in that water. Wild discus would probably prefer a lower ph but you don't have wilds. I don't know about flagfish, but if they are a very active fish as Lupin says, that will stress the discus. Active clown loaches can also stress discus, especially during the night when discus sleep, can't see, and the clown loaches are scurrying around. I have two young clown loaches in my discus tank, they stay in the plant thickets and in the driftwood most of the time, they are very shy and I think they are afraid of the size of my large discus. The minute that changes, they are out of that tank. The lights do not have to be kept off in the tank for a few weeks. Usually the first 24 hours after putting them in your tank is long enough to keep the lights out. If you have very bright lighting, and I see you're planted with CO2, the discus may tend to stay out of the bright light. Mine don't like bright light. I have just enough WPG to grow crypts well. Bump your temperature up to 86. With that temperature change alone you may see them feel better. It's okay if your daily temps fluctuate between 86-88, but set it at 86. 88 is a tad too high for constant temp unless you're treating for some illness. I've never heard of anyone keeping their discus at 90.

How often are you feeding them? And are you just feeding frozen foods?

Discus don't remain dark for no reason. The most likely is an internal parasite issue as SoCal mentions. You should only be seeing dark feces from you fish and you should take the time to watch each one of them to make sure it is dark. When they eat, be sure they are not spitting the food back out after a few seconds. Both food spitting and white feces are sure signs of intestinal parasites. PraziPro is a good parasite med and won't hurt your cories or your loaches or your plants or biofilter.

There are a lot of better tank mates for your discus than the ones you have for example tons of varieties of tetras, blue and/or bolivian rams.

 

[MIKE D]

The lights do not have to be kept off in the tank for a few weeks. Usually the first 24 hours after putting them in your tank is long enough to keep the lights out. If you have very bright lighting, and I see you're planted with CO2, the discus may tend to stay out of the bright light. Mine don't like bright light. I have just enough WPG to grow crypts well. Bump your temperature up to 86. With that temperature change alone you may see them feel better. It's okay if your daily temps fluctuate between 86-88, but set it at 86. 88 is a tad too high for constant temp unless you're treating for some illness. I've never heard of anyone keeping their discus at 90.

Then why was I told to keep the lights off for 4 weeks and keep the temp at 90? Was it becaus my discus were sick? If clown loaches are too active that means danios are out?

 

[pinkertd]

Mike, I have no idea why you were told to keep the light off for 4 weeks. I've never heard that or read that anywhere and I've done discus for several years now. You just have to keep it off long enough to let them settle in after newly acquiring them. I'm not sure about the danios. They are active swimmers, but smaller fish. It's been years since I kept them, but something in my brain keeps me thinking that they can be a little fin-nippy towards other long finned fish? Discus generally don't care for all that tank action around them. I worried when I first put my dwarf chain loaches into the tank. But the loaches settled down and are not dashing about like crazy like they did when they were smaller. They stay mostly to the bottom now that they are fat and have crypt plantations to lounge in! And 90 is just plain too high! Long term that high of a temp is not good for them. I keep the juvies at 86/87 and turn it town between 84/86 when they've grown up.

 

[MIKE D]

Thanks pinkerted. This is where I got the 88-90 degrees and turning the lights off for 4 weeks http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146698. Sorry golfproinlxky didnt meen to hyjack your thread.

 

[Star_Rider]

healthy Discus are kept in those temps.
in this case if you suspect parasites it is not unreasonable to bump the temp to 86-90.
yes 90. young discus can handle the heat quite well
my preference is 86-88 for juveniles but it varies. always add air stones.

you can try prazi pro.. however, many times discus are infected with camillanus(visible ) or capillaria(protozoa) either way they are treated with Fenbendazole, flubendazole or levamisole Hcl

prazi pro is readily available and may be effective but IME I have always had to switch.
keep in mind in many anti parasite meds..you should re-treat in 2-3 weeks.
oddly in very course situations I have used jungle ich gaurd which turns out is very effective on flagellated protozoa(some of them any way)
but it uses victoria green and formalin...with salt..and is deadly to many inverts and does hve some side effect on fish if not dosed properly..however, in drastic situations I have found it very effective. did I notice you said nitrites at 10 (or less)?/
do an immediate water change to drop nitrites..discus do not fare well with ammonia or nitrite showing

 

[pinkertd]

I hadn't read your other thread where you were inquiring about illness. As I stated above "88 is a tad too high for constant temp unless you're treating for some illness." I think you have a couple of things going on here, stress and illness, so Star_rider has good medication advice.