Discus fish

star_rider said:
if you are near seattle (northgate area) check out Kens discus.

he's a local private breeder but he does sell to the public and a very reasonable prices.

you should add to the number 4 is the minimum school size 5 is even better and doable in a 55.
I would ad to the existing stock of black neons..they do well in the warmer water you should keep discus in.(82 is a low end of temp for them 84 is better) any cooler and you may find your discus suffer more problems.
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:iagree: I would definitely recommend a minimum of 4 discus, add a few more black neons, and skip the cardinals altogether. Black neons do better at discus temperatures. Discus don't need dither fish, if they feel secure in a group of their own, they'll be out all the time. They really could care less about what other types of fish are in the tank. They are a very social fish and need more of their own kind. And it would definitely be best to go to Kens rather than search around at the LFS for discus that are more than likely not healthy. Keep your water clean, temps at least 84F, and get some frozen bloodworms for them.
 
Sportnutim:
I suggest you read the article in my blog (link in my signature) about the problems with pure breeds before you buy directly from a breeder.
 
Hi Reptileguy,
I believe the number 1 reason to get fish from a local breeder is HEALTH, HEALTH, HEALTH of the fish being purchased. I am one of the "local breeders" when it comes to fish, and I can assure you in almost all cases local breeders have maintained their tanks and fish in far superior condition than most local fish/pet stores. All local breeders are not "super" hybrid breeding junk, but are like me, taking good, strong stock, breeding in superior tank conditions, feeding superior foods, and producing strong, healthy fish that have never been exposed to things like the huge stress of inferior shipping conditions to stores that keep mass farm produced stock in less than ideal tank conditions, barely feeding enough food, feeding inferior cheap food, keeping all tanks on one common filtration system which goes thru dozens of tanks where hundreds of fish have been exposed to many parasites, viruses and bacterias. Why on earth would you try to talk a discus buyer into local pet store purchases over a local breeder? I've been there, done that years ago as a discus newbie....purchased what looked like healthy fish from what looked like a very good pet store. Only to be faced with the heartbreak later on of finding out that the pet store fish were infected with internal parasites and were really never able to be saved after investing much money in meds. A lot of fish stores are bringing in fish from other countries and performing absolutely ZERO quarantine and ZERO medicating, pretty much insuring that the purchaser is getting sick fish.
 
my suggestion is check with the breeders.

not all breeders support 'pure bred'
some are actually raising wilds in captivity. and introducing the wild back in the line with wildX.


often the problems with mass breeders(where most fish come from) is interbreeding.
the lack of healthy neons is often attributed to this captive breeding.

reptile guy is correct regarding fish bred for a purpose of selectively breeding for color etc.
could be a potential problem.
 
odd ... the edit didn't take on my last post.
in a nutshell..I agree with Debbi.
there are a lot of hobby breeders..who raise healthy stock and breed healthy fish from that stock.
these are the breeders you should seek.
mass breeders have been attrbuted with nice fish which later have health issues. usually due to the introduction of hormones.
 
Sportsnutim said:
Thanks for the information, I didn't know about Kens discus that is cool.
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ken has good stock and good pricing.

I have purchased from him in the past and would not hesitate to get more.

make sure if you get a chance to get some from him.

he will have specials from time to time 4- $50 and the stock is good.
 
They are healthy discus under the prerequisites of pristine water, which you describe and agree is used, and certain diets. They may be healthy in those tanks with that water change schedule, but most hobbyists who just want discus do not maintain those practices. This is when those great discus start to deteriorate. Pick out healthy discus from a shop and use preventative measures. I find that the discus that have gone through shipping, wholesalers, shipping, and LFS are hardier. Be selective about any LFS you buy discus from and if you don't have any satisfactory LFSs then look into local breeders.

NLS Thera+A will take care of those internal parasites for your discus.

The discus from these breeders with super pristine water are like kids raised indoors with everything sterilized all the time, they do well only under those conditions, change things and they no longer thrive.
 
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this is simply not true.

you should check with local breeders ..not all maintin nor breed discus for certain physical traits.

I raised mine from healthy stock from a local breeder..not choice fish. which he does have.
the Discus will adapt to a lower quality condition..they just might not get as large.
you must realize that local breeders have different grades of stock.. what they ship to the lfs may actually be low 'B' grade stock if not 'C' grade.
you can find 'A -' grades and 'B' grade available that are quite healthy but not selected as prime show fish.
I wonder how NLS thera +A has done against camillanus and capillaria infestations.
do you have research data available for this?
and does the fish have to ingest this for it to work(many times with these two the fish has stopped eating.?
 
If you found a local breeder who ignores conformation, color, etc. and only breeds based on hardiness/health then you are right on track with what I am suggesting here.

What are the common internal parasites found in discus?

Jack Wattley suggests garlic enriched foods in his column in TFH magazine because it works. Garlic is the ingredient in NLS's Thera+A that is eliminating those parasites. I have personal experience with its success, and so do many others. If we wait for formal scientific evidence to improve our fishkeeping methods we would never be able to improve because there is VERY little of that type of research out there. Almost all of it has to do with commercially valuable species (food species) and things concerned with fast growth rate and health for the short period of time they are alive, not long-term thrivability. Garlic has shown to have health benefits. In cases of internal parasites it slows down the reproductive rate of the parasite until the parasites eventually just die off and no longer maintain their population.
 
Most breed for specific traits..some of which may include health.
some select offspring to enhance specific characteristics..color trait/patterns etc are only part of the selection process.

I suspect you may want to check with some breeder oe research breeders.

like I said..many times the LFS get substandard Discus 'C' Grade.. the fact remains
when you visit a breeder you wil usually have a choice of fish to select.
all of the breeders I have worked with, are very clear about the conditions regarding the specific fish you are selecting.
you can select high end high quality fish or you can select those that are best suited for a community set up.

where do you think most of the Discus you get come from?? Breeders ...you will pay a pretty penny for wild strains.

in terms of garlic..the book is still out as to the benefits of it..yes it is beneficial.
but again..once infected the garlic has not really been shown to erradicate the problem.
it may help by enhancing the immune system..thereby keeping the parasite in check.but when it flares up how does it work to control the parasite?


I have mentioned camillanus and capillaria infestations. these are reistant to treatment
Sx may not show up until the fish has stopped eating or is spitting the food back out.
btw, I have tried garlic with 0 success. particulalry when the fish has stopped eating.
 
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