just one more point...i agree with PartyAnimal1UK, Woozledad, and afew others that we should put this to rest, end it while the going good...before someone does get personal (not indicating it would be me), and agreeing to disagree would be the best thing for this topic, as it will never be known whether fish feel pain or not, well, maybe in afew centries time...but lets not go there. The best we're gonna get is proof that fish react to stimulus, which is proven. The best we're gonna get on the pain account is personal opinions and beliefs. The cases have been presented, and now i think it is time for people to decide for themselves what to think.
disorantated
- Thread starter PartyAnimal1UK
- Start date
I agree...
I respect all more experienced opinions, seeing how I've only had an aquarium for about 3 weeks, that means just about everyone, lol....
I respect all more experienced opinions, seeing how I've only had an aquarium for about 3 weeks, that means just about everyone, lol....
I never said I wanted to end the argument.
Simple, there responding to stimulus. When you stick your hand under hot water, you pull it back immediatly, before it "hurts". You remember that hot water is bad, and you try to remember not to do that again.
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Very simple question. If fish dont have the part of the brain neccessary for pain, how do they feel pain?
Do I even want to get involved?
Very interesting!
It's very hard to interpret the tone of written material.
Pain? B/c I get cut on my finger, some synapses transfer (chemicals, ions, something) along to each other across numerous ganglia eventually reaching my brain. My brain acknowledges this. Intercept this transmission (ie accupuncture) or remove the ability to perceive (drugs) and there is no pain. The wound is there still. Do fish have this advanced nervous system? If so, can they perceive it?
This seems to be the debate. Not who is flaming who.
Seems to me Slip is looking for documented evidence to say "Yes" fish perceive pain.
As for fish backing down from one another, I don't believe this constitutes an arguement for them feeling pain. Big Horn sheep SMASH heads to establish dominance. Man that has got to hurt! Experts say no b/c they have specialized skulls that absorb the blow. But one backs down anyway. Why? Again, we look to experts to explain it.
Now thom336, I am not saying you are wrong, I don't know absolutely. I personally don't believe fish feel pain as we do however. I would certainly like to see evidence (documented by "experts") as slipknottin would.
Oh, and PLEASE don't include me with "that lot"!
Very interesting!
It's very hard to interpret the tone of written material.
Pain? B/c I get cut on my finger, some synapses transfer (chemicals, ions, something) along to each other across numerous ganglia eventually reaching my brain. My brain acknowledges this. Intercept this transmission (ie accupuncture) or remove the ability to perceive (drugs) and there is no pain. The wound is there still. Do fish have this advanced nervous system? If so, can they perceive it?
This seems to be the debate. Not who is flaming who.
Seems to me Slip is looking for documented evidence to say "Yes" fish perceive pain.
As for fish backing down from one another, I don't believe this constitutes an arguement for them feeling pain. Big Horn sheep SMASH heads to establish dominance. Man that has got to hurt! Experts say no b/c they have specialized skulls that absorb the blow. But one backs down anyway. Why? Again, we look to experts to explain it.
Now thom336, I am not saying you are wrong, I don't know absolutely. I personally don't believe fish feel pain as we do however. I would certainly like to see evidence (documented by "experts") as slipknottin would.
Oh, and PLEASE don't include me with "that lot"!
hurt is a descriptive word of what it is like to feel pain. im thinking you tried to phrase that so it didnt seem like pain...
im talking with pain, beviking, meaning: cut urself, you get hurt - a feeling of pain.
slipknottin, i am thinking from what you hav put that you hav seen the inside of a fishes brain? or that youve seen diagrams? or, maybe, some1 has just writtin somwhere that the fish do not have that part of the brain? where you coming from with that? whats your source?
if i took out this part of your brain, would you no longer feel pain? if that is correct, then why arent there super humans being created that dont feel pain? and you cant say that that wouldnt b able to happen because we dont know wot part of the brain it is exactly...because u apparently know wot is missin from a fish! or maybe its different in fish of course...in which case how do you know that it is the pain bit that is missin?
ok...now im gonna bring in a quote from a while back written by slipknottin....
"What you believe or dont believe isnt entirely relevant."
are u suggesting to me with this quote that whatever i say ur not gonna accept because it isnt entirely relevent? everything i have said is relevent to the topic of fish pain and euthanasia.
im talking with pain, beviking, meaning: cut urself, you get hurt - a feeling of pain.
slipknottin, i am thinking from what you hav put that you hav seen the inside of a fishes brain? or that youve seen diagrams? or, maybe, some1 has just writtin somwhere that the fish do not have that part of the brain? where you coming from with that? whats your source?
if i took out this part of your brain, would you no longer feel pain? if that is correct, then why arent there super humans being created that dont feel pain? and you cant say that that wouldnt b able to happen because we dont know wot part of the brain it is exactly...because u apparently know wot is missin from a fish! or maybe its different in fish of course...in which case how do you know that it is the pain bit that is missin?
ok...now im gonna bring in a quote from a while back written by slipknottin....
"What you believe or dont believe isnt entirely relevant."
are u suggesting to me with this quote that whatever i say ur not gonna accept because it isnt entirely relevent? everything i have said is relevent to the topic of fish pain and euthanasia.
There are at least 4 links in this thread.
The part of the brain that is used for pain is also used for sensations and emotions. Thats why nobody has had it removed. Many painkillers work by preventing transmission to these parts of the brain. Yet when people are on these drugs, they will still react to stimuli. They just dont feel the pain.
Opinions dont hold much weight in a factual argument.
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slipknottin, i am thinking from what you hav put that you hav seen the inside of a fishes brain? or that youve seen diagrams? or, maybe, some1 has just writtin somwhere that the fish do not have that part of the brain? where you coming from with that? whats your source?
if i took out this part of your brain, would you no longer feel pain? if that is correct, then why arent there super humans being created that dont feel pain? and you cant say that that wouldnt b able to happen because we dont know wot part of the brain it is exactly...because u apparently know wot is missin from a fish! or maybe its different in fish of course...in which case how do you know that it is the pain bit that is missin?
ok...now im gonna bring in a quote from a while back written by slipknottin....
"What you believe or dont believe isnt entirely relevant."
are u suggesting to me with this quote that whatever i say ur not gonna accept because it isnt entirely relevent? everything i have said is relevent to the topic of fish pain and euthanasia.
if i took out this part of your brain, would you no longer feel pain? if that is correct, then why arent there super humans being created that dont feel pain? and you cant say that that wouldnt b able to happen because we dont know wot part of the brain it is exactly...because u apparently know wot is missin from a fish! or maybe its different in fish of course...in which case how do you know that it is the pain bit that is missin?
ok...now im gonna bring in a quote from a while back written by slipknottin....
"What you believe or dont believe isnt entirely relevant."
are u suggesting to me with this quote that whatever i say ur not gonna accept because it isnt entirely relevent? everything i have said is relevent to the topic of fish pain and euthanasia.
