Do air stones REALLY provide oxygen to the tank?
- Thread starter unseenone00
- Start date
opcorn:
I'm sure the lowly airstone is glad to have such a zealous defender, but your rebuttals are no more factual than the made up facts you speak of. See what I'm getting at here?
Since people are apparently amused by this back and forth we have going, I will add my two bits here and there...
-'They are not as effective as powerheads': only if you buy a weak air pump.
Go to any chain pet store...look at what they have for air pumps. Most of them are what I suspect you would call weak, and they're not usually cheap either. On the Petsmart website, a Rena 400 is $60. It pumps out 4.5 psi. Those Azoo pumps (which I've never seen in stores or heard of, although I did have some battery powered Azoo pumps way back when) you speak of seem like a really good value, so I am glad you mentioned them. It seems they are a little TOO cheap, which makes me wonder...why? Are they loud? I hope not, because the next time my Whisper diaphragm wears out (like it already has done, twice) I'll just buy one of these instead of pay $12 for the repair kit, which seems like a pretty big rip off since all I need is a rubber piece with about as much rubber as there is on a 25 cent eraser.
-'They create a lot of salt spray'. They only create salt spray if used in a saltwater tank, which is not what I am recommending at all.
They do make a huge mess in freshwater also. Anytime I've run anything besides a sponge filter, "bubbles" have left a lot of mineral deposits on my hood. Way more than a canister filter and considerably more than a power filter. This isn't a big deal, but it is a little annoying and it was one reason I was glad to move away from using airstones.
-'They clog up'. Who cares. Air stones can run for months to well over a year without being replaced and cost $0.50-1 each to replace. If you can't handle that get out of the hobby now.
Maybe you have much softer water than I do, but I've never gotten more than three months out of airstones...and I've tried all kinds except for Ken's No Clog airstones. So maybe these are what you're using...but the 50 cent airstones definitely clog much faster for me.
And really, it is a pain to change an airstone out of an undergravel filter...especially since they calcify and become almost impossible to remove without breaking. It's much less work to rinse a powerhead, and...(see below)
-'They wear out quickly and need replacing'. Not at all. Air pumps can run years with absolutely no maintenance or replacement of anything. You will more likely be replacing a powerhead's impeller (or the whole thing) before you need to touch an air pump.
I've never had to replace an impeller on a powerhead, but I have had to replace many diaphragms out of my Whisper dome pumps. I love these pumps because they are the quietest I've encountered, but the diaphragms do not last. This is not something I'm making up, it's a complaint you will see often....in fact, when I couldn't find replacements online (every place I looked was out of stock) Tetra sent me some direct, for free, which was awfully nice of them.
-'They can give off irregular air flow'. No, not at all. The air pump provides a nice, steady stream of air.
I agree that the flow is not usually irregular, except for undergravels....where I know I have had to pinch air in order to throttle back the "favored" side and get even airflow out of both uplifts. I still use one undergravel filter with airstones, because it is using sand (long story, but it does work for my purposes) and powerheads would definitely choke...so airstones are my only option. I am pretty happy with my undersand experiment, although I would only use it in certain circumstances.
-'Air line hoses can get pinched or kinked'. So don't pinch or kink them.
It happens. It's easily remedied, but a drawback nonetheless. I especially find this is a problem when you connect rigid airline tubing to flexible...the drop down does tend to kink the flexible tubing at the juncture of the two. I ran undergravel filters on two 2 gallon hex tanks (the kind of filtration they came with) and had to fashion a DIY solution to this problem. It was simple enough to fix.
-'Some air flow pressure is lost...', Yet again, see response to first item.
Not everyone is set up for a fish room in their house. If you wanted to set up two tanks across from each other in the living room (or similar non-utility area) with air, it would be a challenge to try and get one air pump to power both equally.
-'The deeper the tank...', YET AGAIN, see response to first item.
Many people have only a certain place they can put their air pump. I'm sure they work better over the aquarium, but not everyone can swing this.
What about the fact that air pumps are mostly all NOISY? This is probably the #1 reason they have fallen out of favor. I have a friend with three 4' tanks powered solely with air, he keeps his air pump on top of the water heater in the utility closet, stuffed inside of a pillow with batting. He has airline run through the attic...which works great for him, but there is no way I would set anything up like that. I'll keep using my powerheads, thanks
Since people are apparently amused by this back and forth we have going, I will add my two bits here and there...
-'They are not as effective as powerheads': only if you buy a weak air pump.
Go to any chain pet store...look at what they have for air pumps. Most of them are what I suspect you would call weak, and they're not usually cheap either. On the Petsmart website, a Rena 400 is $60. It pumps out 4.5 psi. Those Azoo pumps (which I've never seen in stores or heard of, although I did have some battery powered Azoo pumps way back when) you speak of seem like a really good value, so I am glad you mentioned them. It seems they are a little TOO cheap, which makes me wonder...why? Are they loud? I hope not, because the next time my Whisper diaphragm wears out (like it already has done, twice) I'll just buy one of these instead of pay $12 for the repair kit, which seems like a pretty big rip off since all I need is a rubber piece with about as much rubber as there is on a 25 cent eraser.
-'They create a lot of salt spray'. They only create salt spray if used in a saltwater tank, which is not what I am recommending at all.
They do make a huge mess in freshwater also. Anytime I've run anything besides a sponge filter, "bubbles" have left a lot of mineral deposits on my hood. Way more than a canister filter and considerably more than a power filter. This isn't a big deal, but it is a little annoying and it was one reason I was glad to move away from using airstones.
-'They clog up'. Who cares. Air stones can run for months to well over a year without being replaced and cost $0.50-1 each to replace. If you can't handle that get out of the hobby now.
Maybe you have much softer water than I do, but I've never gotten more than three months out of airstones...and I've tried all kinds except for Ken's No Clog airstones. So maybe these are what you're using...but the 50 cent airstones definitely clog much faster for me.
And really, it is a pain to change an airstone out of an undergravel filter...especially since they calcify and become almost impossible to remove without breaking. It's much less work to rinse a powerhead, and...(see below)
-'They wear out quickly and need replacing'. Not at all. Air pumps can run years with absolutely no maintenance or replacement of anything. You will more likely be replacing a powerhead's impeller (or the whole thing) before you need to touch an air pump.
I've never had to replace an impeller on a powerhead, but I have had to replace many diaphragms out of my Whisper dome pumps. I love these pumps because they are the quietest I've encountered, but the diaphragms do not last. This is not something I'm making up, it's a complaint you will see often....in fact, when I couldn't find replacements online (every place I looked was out of stock) Tetra sent me some direct, for free, which was awfully nice of them.
-'They can give off irregular air flow'. No, not at all. The air pump provides a nice, steady stream of air.
I agree that the flow is not usually irregular, except for undergravels....where I know I have had to pinch air in order to throttle back the "favored" side and get even airflow out of both uplifts. I still use one undergravel filter with airstones, because it is using sand (long story, but it does work for my purposes) and powerheads would definitely choke...so airstones are my only option. I am pretty happy with my undersand experiment, although I would only use it in certain circumstances.
-'Air line hoses can get pinched or kinked'. So don't pinch or kink them.
It happens. It's easily remedied, but a drawback nonetheless. I especially find this is a problem when you connect rigid airline tubing to flexible...the drop down does tend to kink the flexible tubing at the juncture of the two. I ran undergravel filters on two 2 gallon hex tanks (the kind of filtration they came with) and had to fashion a DIY solution to this problem. It was simple enough to fix.
-'Some air flow pressure is lost...', Yet again, see response to first item.
Not everyone is set up for a fish room in their house. If you wanted to set up two tanks across from each other in the living room (or similar non-utility area) with air, it would be a challenge to try and get one air pump to power both equally.
-'The deeper the tank...', YET AGAIN, see response to first item.
Many people have only a certain place they can put their air pump. I'm sure they work better over the aquarium, but not everyone can swing this.
What about the fact that air pumps are mostly all NOISY? This is probably the #1 reason they have fallen out of favor. I have a friend with three 4' tanks powered solely with air, he keeps his air pump on top of the water heater in the utility closet, stuffed inside of a pillow with batting. He has airline run through the attic...which works great for him, but there is no way I would set anything up like that. I'll keep using my powerheads, thanks
I don't recommend UGFs at all ever, so any issues involved with them is pointless IMO.
The Azoos are silent. You will hear the bubbles more than anything the pump makes (unless the pump is resting against something, like any air pump).
My water is about as hard as it gets, it holds a pH of 7.8-8.2.
I don't have deposits develop on my glass canopies any faster with air pumps on or off the tank, but I do get more algae which is easily wiped off.
Being above of below the tank isn't the issue with deep tanks, the issues is the depth of the water which creates a lot more back pressure for an air stone under 30" of water than one under 12" of water. So the issue is the same whether at/above water level, or on the floor in the stand.
If you need to run air to two tanks at opposite ends of a room, 'indulge' in two air pumps, a whopping $45 or so for the Azoo 9500.
I have not had noise issues with any in years. The newest designs all use little rubber feet and run silent. You get more noise from the bubbles or even the surface agitation from a HOB than from the air pump. I have one (or two) in the stand of my 75 which is roughly 18" from my bed and just hear the gentle bubbles in the tank. In fact, I sold someone a massive pond air pump for their 125 because we were out of smaller air pumps and I plugged it in for them and showed them how quiet it was, they had to touch it to make sure it was really on. I don't know which models you have used or what issues were involved, but I haven't found noise to be an issue since about the time Whisper came out with their domed/legged model.
The Azoos are silent. You will hear the bubbles more than anything the pump makes (unless the pump is resting against something, like any air pump).
My water is about as hard as it gets, it holds a pH of 7.8-8.2.
I don't have deposits develop on my glass canopies any faster with air pumps on or off the tank, but I do get more algae which is easily wiped off.
Being above of below the tank isn't the issue with deep tanks, the issues is the depth of the water which creates a lot more back pressure for an air stone under 30" of water than one under 12" of water. So the issue is the same whether at/above water level, or on the floor in the stand.
If you need to run air to two tanks at opposite ends of a room, 'indulge' in two air pumps, a whopping $45 or so for the Azoo 9500.
I have not had noise issues with any in years. The newest designs all use little rubber feet and run silent. You get more noise from the bubbles or even the surface agitation from a HOB than from the air pump. I have one (or two) in the stand of my 75 which is roughly 18" from my bed and just hear the gentle bubbles in the tank. In fact, I sold someone a massive pond air pump for their 125 because we were out of smaller air pumps and I plugged it in for them and showed them how quiet it was, they had to touch it to make sure it was really on. I don't know which models you have used or what issues were involved, but I haven't found noise to be an issue since about the time Whisper came out with their domed/legged model.
I've always <3 airstones. I use a 3.5"er along with a 75g rated powerhead in my 100g for oxygenation and circulation purposes respectively.
$0.02.
:cheers: mates.
$0.02.
:cheers: mates.
Just let it go, Platy. Unlike many people, you're very articulate, and I understand where you're coming from (I'm not a fan of UGF or RUGF, either, but can understand that they have their place), but I'm not sure if he's trolling or just being deliberately obtuse. If he's trolling, well, stop feeding the troll. If he's just being deliberately obtuse, well, I guess it's easy to claim that there are no valid differing opinions.
Well, I can't wait to try those Azoo pumps. The last pump I tried was a Marina, which was supposed to be silent (little rubber feet and all) but I found pretty noisy. Definitely not as quiet as the dome Whispers. I don't think my hearing is particularly sensitive, but I am one of those people who can't drown out noise. Lawnmowers, blowers, etc. all bother me and I don't get used to them, I used to work at a place with an ice machine and the whir on it would drive me bananas. However for $20, I will give it a shot, and let you know. Most likely it is going to need to be put inside of a box with packing peanuts for it to be quiet enough for me, which is how my TetraTec 150 is currently set up.
Thanks, Authmal I don't think he's trolling. We obviously are not going to change each others minds, but isn't that how it always is? At least I found out about a new cheaper pump, which maybe will be worthwhile. The skeptic in me wonders "If these are so great, and so cheap, why aren't they more popular?" but I'll try any piece of equipment once.
Thanks, Authmal
I don't think he's trolling. We obviously are not going to change each others minds, but isn't that how it always is? At least I found out about a new cheaper pump, which maybe will be worthwhile. The skeptic in me wonders "If these are so great, and so cheap, why aren't they more popular?" but I'll try any piece of equipment once.
I am not trolling, we are discussing air stones and both people involved are sharing their opinions and sticking to the subject. Discussions like this frequently end up being the most productive and everyone involved learns (from the people debating to all those reading along now and in the future). I am speaking from experience. I have been in the hobby for fifteen years, worked in shops for ten, managed a fish shop for a couple years, and now run my own pet care company that includes aquarium maintenance. I have dealt with many tanks, equipment, brands, etc. I am not making this up or speaking theoretically. I have seen too many tanks completely saved by air stones alone when their filters stop for no good reason (impeller breaks, cichlids enjoy spitting sand in the intake, just don't start back up after power outage, etc.) to not recommend them for every freshwater tank. So to me, when I see people saying they are pointless, ineffective, etc. I chime in to make sure others know that is not fact, but the opinion of that person who has lucked out and not seen the bad situations where air pumps prove their worth.
I feel that airstones are a good addition to almost any tank. There seems to be no reason that the DON'T oxygenate the water, as gas exchange happens everywhere air and water come in contact. It would stand to reason that the many tiny bubbles created by airstones provides a large amount of surface area for the gas exchange to take place.
I can't comment on aquariums but when I do hydroponics, reservoirs with an air pump have a much higher propagation rate than ones without it.
