Do fishes have feelings?

[aquariumfishguy]

A restaurant prepared a fish recipe as such. Take fish out, scale it, cut it down the middle, rip out its guts, flour and season its body and while holding the head, place the body in cooking oil to fry him(body only). The part that hurt me the most was when they showed the family eating at the fishes body, he was alive the whole time opening and closing his mouth. :sad
It really ticked me off. I wished that I changed the channel. I do believe that fish are able to feel pain.

That sounds horrible, and while I wonder how that fish was able to remain alive (I'd have to see it to believe it), it still doesn't prove whether or not a fish feels pain. I think we feel more pain for the animals that are harmed than the actual animals themselves.

 

[chunksofpoooo]

That sounds horrible, and while I wonder how that fish was able to remain alive (I'd have to see it to believe it), it still doesn't prove whether or not a fish feels pain. I think we feel more pain for the animals that are harmed than the actual animals themselves.

i saw it too, but the fish isnt alive. Most of the actions (gasping) are out of a nervous response, not a concious decision (or need).

 

[PumaWard]

AFG, there's a difference between physical and mental pain. My fish don't recoil from my simply touch them, but if I accidentally jab them with my nail they do... if they couldn't feel pain, why would they act differently? Pain is a nerve endings response to damage.

Why would we need to deaden an area of fin tissue to cut it off if they couldn't feel pain? Why bother fishless cycling?

Going to an even lower being, why does a worm writhe around when you stick a hook through it? If it didn't hurt, why respond at all?

I'm not saying that fish stay there, staring at something thinking about how it's going to hurt them.

I guess our definitions of pain are different maybe? But, either why, I think saying that fish don't "feel" pain is giving cannon fodder for improper fish care.

 

[cloud]

Hi all,

Very interesting debate with good comments on both sides.

My two cents:

I think fish must have feelings although they can't be as intense/complex as human emotions. And they most likely don't comprehend or understand the emotions they feel. They are more likely to be extremely primative versions of what we feel. My reasons for thinking this are as follows.

Fish must feel fear as they hide/school/run away for protection. And a being can only feel an emotion such as fear if they can juxtapose it against its opposite. To put it more simply, if you can't understand one emotion such as happyness you can't understand sadness as the two go hand in hand, the same goes for all other emotions. I very much doubt that most fish have the capacity to understand or comprehend the emotions in question but in some primitive way they must still feel them.

Also, I've not seen another group of creatures that are effected by stress as much as the fish in our tanks. As we are all more than aware, the slightest amount of stress caused by something as little as being overly robust when you clean out the tank can stress a fish to death (the little B*****d that comes round to clean our work thank causes such a tsunami every time he cleans the gravel we're garunteed at least one death each time - we've put a complaint in). A creature incabable of feeling emotion on any level is in my oppinion incabled of becomming stressed.

One last thing, I've researched a fair bit into one fish in my time working at the Discovery Channel (namely sharks) and I know how inquisitive they can be (i'm only a graphic designer at the channel by the way, but it sure is a good place to be if you want to learn more about your subjects of interest). Sometimes Great Whites are as curious as Dolphins and show no signs of caring wheather the object of their curiosity is good to eat or not, they are interested for the sake of interest only. So they're one fish at least that is capable of awarness on a level that isn't only survival based. I realise that Great Whites are far more complex than your average guppy but its at least proof that we are not the only creatures out there capable of a degree of intelegence and awareness and that some fish come into that category. For more proof of emotion and awareness in the animal kingdom look at the jealousy displayed by chimps (siblings attack one another if their mother seems to show a preference to one more than the other in the same way that human children do), the depression that orangutans are often prone to (many females have died from post natal deprassion in particular), the unnessesary cruelty displayed by orcas (they can take hours to kill a turtle as they play with it and mutilate it for sporting reasons first, and they 'trophy hunt' grey whales taking only their toungues after a day long hunt), and the playfulness and curiosity of dolphins (they jump out of the water doing all sorts of acrobatics for no other reason than they enjoy it). Did you know that it is widely eccepted that the dolphin who starred in the Flipper TV series actively commited suicide? There are many interviews with his keeper on the subject as the event caused him to become one of the leading dolphin rights campaigners.

 

[Rushdude]

I like fishing and at the same time it makes me feel bad because when you yell for a gaff and you see the fish on board bleeding from the gaff, you start to feel bad for it.

 

[slipknottin]

AFG, there's a difference between physical and mental pain. My fish don't recoil from my simply touch them, but if I accidentally jab them with my nail they do... if they couldn't feel pain, why would they act differently? Pain is a nerve endings response to damage.

Wrong. Fish respond to stimuli. Stimuli can later cause the sensation of pain.

People, and other animals that can sense pain will react to any hurtful stimuli well before they have any feeling of pain. It simply takes too long for the brain to process the stimuli and emit a chemical to give you that sensation.

We, like all animals, respond to stimuli. We then can later make additional reactions once we have the sensation of pain.

Fish are not developed enough to have a concious awareness, and any sensations or feelings. They react entirely off stimuli.

 

[legbamel]

I'd have to say that I'd like to believe that my fish are happier when I treat them nicely and feed them treats, but I think they're just a little healthier or fatter! I would guess that they do feel pain, but I also agree with the point that responding to stimuli and feeling pain are two different things. Responding as part of an instinct for survival is not the same thing as being in pain, although often the reason for the discomfort is to forge an instinct to avoid the stimulus in the future. Pain is there to tell us when we are being damaged, not some "high-falutin'" emotional response. It is our nervous system telling us that something bad has happened and we'd better deal with it. This does not mean that a creature which feels pain automatically lays claim to the so-called "higher emotions", just that it has a system capable of warning it of danger. Schooling is also a survival instinct rather than sociability, and so, often, is "curiosity". That said, I think sharks are fascinating and I believe that they are very intelligent and curious creatures. But my believing it does not constitute scientific proof!

 

[aquariumfishguy]

Wrong. Fish respond to stimuli. Stimuli can later cause the sensation of pain.

We, like all animals, respond to stimuli. We then can later make additional reactions once we have the sensation of pain.

Fish are not developed enough to have a concious awareness, and any sensations or feelings. They react entirely off stimuli.

I complete agree with what Slipknottin said - that fish react entirely on stimuli. This has nothing to do with pain; pain isn't a stimuli reaction move. Pain is much more mental than it is physical, although physical does play a large role. My bottom line is, fish do not feel all the pain that we humans feel. Their nerves are simply not setup ("wired") like a human being.

 

[chunksofpoooo]

Fish must feel fear as they hide/school/run away for protection.

fish school out of instinct, it has nothing to do with fear. Their actions are burnt into their head from the moment they're born, and it just so happens (luckily) that those actions help them survive. If schooling was out of fear or protection, then they would have to "learn" how to school, most schooling fish know how from the moment they're born (just like spiders know how to make their webs).

A creature incabable of feeling emotion on any level is in my oppinion incabled of becomming stressed.

Any animal, regardless of the ability to feel emotion or not, can be stressed. The inability to escape from danger, especially for an extended period of time, does damage eventually.

Going to an even lower being, why does a worm writhe around when you stick a hook through it? If it didn't hurt, why respond at all?

like slipknottin and AFG pointed out, its a response to a stimuli. Namely, a stimuli that is causing tissue damage. Every animal has the instict to escape damage and to survive. If an animal recieves a stimuli that indicates it is being damaged, or its ability to survive is in danger, it will respond accordingly. Humans have the same response, i believe its called the feedback loop (not sure on the name), where the body recieves a stimuli (such as a burn) and the body reacts (pulling the finger away from the source of heat) before you feel any sensation of pain. This is similar to how many animal nervous systems function

 

[StreetCypher]

Humans have the same response, i believe its called the feedback loop (not sure on the name), where the body recieves a stimuli (such as a burn) and the body reacts (pulling the finger away from the source of heat) before you feel any sensation of pain.

If i remember correctly its called an automatic feedback loop. Its merely a response to a stimuli (as stated earlier), no thinking involved.
Lower form animals such as fish don't have a very developed cerebral cortex, which is where all higher process thinking is done (ex. emotions such as happiness, love, pain).
Their "brain" is just a brain stem controlling the basics of life (breathing, heart rate etc)