do Oscar have to dig to be happy
- Thread starter daveedka
- Start date
So, an oscar would feel like an abused turd in 10 gallon tank, an unappreciated nerd in a 55 gallon tank, be happy as a clam in a 90 gallon tank, feel like a frickin' king/queen in 180 gallon tank and think they died and went to heaven in a 300 gallon tank? If you think that is a run-on sentence (ros for you acronym loving people), you're right, you win a prize!
Wouldn't he/she be much happier in it's natural environment? Let's draw the line somewhere in the sand folks! Be careful about downplaying someones 55 gallon tank in comparison to your own 90 gallon, when that 90g. lacks the measurement superiority of the 180g...lol
Be nice, leave the oscars alone and support the Guppy! Unless we leave our houses and convert it into an aquarium, mr/mrs. oscar may not be ultimately thrilled
cheers,
Marc
Wouldn't he/she be much happier in it's natural environment? Let's draw the line somewhere in the sand folks! Be careful about downplaying someones 55 gallon tank in comparison to your own 90 gallon, when that 90g. lacks the measurement superiority of the 180g...lol
Be nice, leave the oscars alone and support the Guppy! Unless we leave our houses and convert it into an aquarium, mr/mrs. oscar may not be ultimately thrilled
cheers,
Marc
If you use that mindset then anyone keeping any sort of animal is doing a disservice to that animal as all animals orginate from the wild.
There is a fine line that exists between housing an animal properly and just housing an animal for the sake of housing an animal.
While it may be true that some fish would be "happier" in a real environment in its natural habitat, the other side of token is perhaps in a home aquarium this animal has a MUCH MUCH MUCH greater chance at survival. Try telling the baby Convicts of the world that they would be "happier" living in the wild and having to fend for themselves....having to find their own food...having to steer clear of predators.
I can assure you, the Convict fry I keep have a near 100% survival rate, as do 99.99% of any other fish I keep. Compare these stats to the "wild" and I think MY fish would rather live with ME than somewhere else.
Keeping an Oscar in a 20g tank can be compared to throwing a white Christian male in an Army uniform into the desert of Iraq. Sure he's alive, but for how long, and how happy is he?
There is a fine line that exists between housing an animal properly and just housing an animal for the sake of housing an animal.
While it may be true that some fish would be "happier" in a real environment in its natural habitat, the other side of token is perhaps in a home aquarium this animal has a MUCH MUCH MUCH greater chance at survival. Try telling the baby Convicts of the world that they would be "happier" living in the wild and having to fend for themselves....having to find their own food...having to steer clear of predators.
I can assure you, the Convict fry I keep have a near 100% survival rate, as do 99.99% of any other fish I keep. Compare these stats to the "wild" and I think MY fish would rather live with ME than somewhere else.
Keeping an Oscar in a 20g tank can be compared to throwing a white Christian male in an Army uniform into the desert of Iraq. Sure he's alive, but for how long, and how happy is he?
An interesting argument, backed by personal statistics, very impressive. Your argument stipulates survival rates exceeding comparable species in the wild, while you appropriately acknoweldge that they may not be 100% content due to their slightly less than ideal surroundings. Albeit, this is the nature of a hobby involving confined living quarters of our fishy friends.
Since we're all here to appreciate the fish keeping hobby, or frogs for that matter, then perhaps purchasing the largest tank that we can afford is the wisest decision producing the greatest enjoyment for ourselves and our fortunate aquatic friends I feel horrible now for the 3 oscars I have crammed into my 10 gallon tank...kidding.
Since we're all here to appreciate the fish keeping hobby, or frogs for that matter, then perhaps purchasing the largest tank that we can afford is the wisest decision producing the greatest enjoyment for ourselves and our fortunate aquatic friends
I feel horrible now for the 3 oscars I have crammed into my 10 gallon tank...kidding."you appropriately acknoweldge that they may not be 100% content due to their slightly less than ideal surroundings. Albeit, this is the nature of a hobby involving confined living quarters of our fishy friends. "
I would agree with you here, but with the understanding that the fishy friend we CHOOSE to keep should be one that we are PROPERLY able to house.
The fish keeping hobby is not LEGALLY regulated to such degrees as are more common animals like dogs, cats, and horses. Try keeping 10 puppies in a 1 bedroom apt and see how long your butt stays out of legal trouble. Try keeping a Clydesdale foal in a 6 foot dog kennel in your backyard and see how long it is before animal control is SEIZING your animal and CITING you to a court hearing.
Yet the same thing happens daily to fish. People buy fish with no regaurds to their proper keeping.
Most animals have laws and regulations regaurding their keeping while fish and most aquatic life do not. Whens the last time you heard of FISH control coming and citing someone for keeping too many guppies in a 5g tank.
What I am saying is fish owner and hobbyist should care for their animals as if they WERE regulated by some sort of FISH POLICE.
"Since we're all here to appreciate the fish keeping hobby, or frogs for that matter, then perhaps purchasing the largest tank that we can afford is the wisest decision producing the greatest enjoyment for ourselves and our fortunate aquatic friends"
I agree. Keeping the LARGEST tank that we can afford AND housing the proper fish we can afford to PROPERLY house and keep IS a wise decision. It is NOT a wise decision to house fish we are not adequately prepared to keep. It is unresponsible for you or I to keep an Oscar, a Jack Dempsy or a Pacu in a 10g, 20g, or even a 55g tank. While these tanks may be well suited for temporary JUVENILE size fish, these tanks are NOT suited for long term housing of certain fish. Anyone who houses ANY type of fish or ANY type of animal has a moral and ethical obligation to provide them with a PROPER and SUITABLE long term home. If you don't, you have no right to make these purchases.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Would you agree with the man who purchases a 9 week old Great Dane Puppy (and plans to keep this puppy until it dies) (and has no immediate plans to move to larger quarters) when this guy lives in an apartment and whose plan is to keep this puppy indoors at ALL times (he never lets the puppy out)? WOuld you think this was a wise decision? Would you think this housing araingment would best suit this animal?
I would agree with you here, but with the understanding that the fishy friend we CHOOSE to keep should be one that we are PROPERLY able to house.
The fish keeping hobby is not LEGALLY regulated to such degrees as are more common animals like dogs, cats, and horses. Try keeping 10 puppies in a 1 bedroom apt and see how long your butt stays out of legal trouble. Try keeping a Clydesdale foal in a 6 foot dog kennel in your backyard and see how long it is before animal control is SEIZING your animal and CITING you to a court hearing.
Yet the same thing happens daily to fish. People buy fish with no regaurds to their proper keeping.
Most animals have laws and regulations regaurding their keeping while fish and most aquatic life do not. Whens the last time you heard of FISH control coming and citing someone for keeping too many guppies in a 5g tank.
What I am saying is fish owner and hobbyist should care for their animals as if they WERE regulated by some sort of FISH POLICE.
"Since we're all here to appreciate the fish keeping hobby, or frogs for that matter, then perhaps purchasing the largest tank that we can afford is the wisest decision producing the greatest enjoyment for ourselves and our fortunate aquatic friends"
I agree. Keeping the LARGEST tank that we can afford AND housing the proper fish we can afford to PROPERLY house and keep IS a wise decision. It is NOT a wise decision to house fish we are not adequately prepared to keep. It is unresponsible for you or I to keep an Oscar, a Jack Dempsy or a Pacu in a 10g, 20g, or even a 55g tank. While these tanks may be well suited for temporary JUVENILE size fish, these tanks are NOT suited for long term housing of certain fish. Anyone who houses ANY type of fish or ANY type of animal has a moral and ethical obligation to provide them with a PROPER and SUITABLE long term home. If you don't, you have no right to make these purchases.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Would you agree with the man who purchases a 9 week old Great Dane Puppy (and plans to keep this puppy until it dies) (and has no immediate plans to move to larger quarters) when this guy lives in an apartment and whose plan is to keep this puppy indoors at ALL times (he never lets the puppy out)? WOuld you think this was a wise decision? Would you think this housing araingment would best suit this animal?
The obvious answer to that hypothetical question is no. I assume that question wasn't rhetorical? The same applies to fish of course. Try finding a hobby though with more complexities than aquarium fish keeping. As simple or complex as one might desire, yet for many the simple becomes overly complex as the water chemistry, confined space bear too much of a burden on our specimen.
I agree, the hobby should be policed, extreme and highly unlikely, nevertheless not a bad idea On that note, time for bed...I enjoyed our conversation...6 hrs left, must sleep.
Marc
I agree, the hobby should be policed, extreme and highly unlikely, nevertheless not a bad idea
On that note, time for bed...I enjoyed our conversation...6 hrs left, must sleep.Marc
The reason our hobby is so complex is due largely in part to education. The general public has little knowledge of proper fishkeeping when compared to the proper keeping of dogs and cats. And 99% of the general population that has no clue on the proper keeping of horses and cows has enough common sense to know whether or not they have adequate means to house either of such animal. (It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know whether or not you have proper space for a horse or cow.)
Having said that though, it does not excuse nor condone attitudes such as yours that say just because we can only afford a 20g tank that should excuse us if we choose to house inappropriate fish.
I say BS!! The goal of websites like Aquaria Central is to provide fishkeepers with knowledge and advice with regaurds to the fishkeeping hobby. Unfortunately most housing questions with regaurds to "what fish can I keep" come too late. Meaning, they come AFTER the purchase has been made. Most of us here can excuse someone for making a poor fish selection but the VAST majority of here CANNOT excuse someone who makes a poor fish selection and yet ignores the warnings being given and he who fails to remedy the situation.
Just because the guy buys a great dane puppy and realizes he made a bad decision doesn't automatically exclude him from liability. What he does to remedy the situation solidifies his place in whether or not he is a responsible petowner.
I see what you are saying though. In which tank would a single lone guppy more happy? A 10g or 200g? Obviously the 200g would provide the guppy a more "natural" environment with respects to free space to move around and inhibit its natural characteristics. And I agree with you that not everyone can provide their fish with an idealistic dream situation. Nonetheless, there is a fine line between providing a fish with an idealistic habitat and providing your fish with meer living quarters. If all you plan to do is house your fish with bare minimums and do not take into account any regaurd to well being, then most any tank will do for most any fish. However, it is my goal, and the goal of most serious hobbyists, to provide my fish with the most suitable long term living conditions I can provide.
No matter which way you cut it though, there are certain fish that 90% of aquarium owners are simply not able to house....and shouldn't.
Having said that though, it does not excuse nor condone attitudes such as yours that say just because we can only afford a 20g tank that should excuse us if we choose to house inappropriate fish.
I say BS!! The goal of websites like Aquaria Central is to provide fishkeepers with knowledge and advice with regaurds to the fishkeeping hobby. Unfortunately most housing questions with regaurds to "what fish can I keep" come too late. Meaning, they come AFTER the purchase has been made. Most of us here can excuse someone for making a poor fish selection but the VAST majority of here CANNOT excuse someone who makes a poor fish selection and yet ignores the warnings being given and he who fails to remedy the situation.
Just because the guy buys a great dane puppy and realizes he made a bad decision doesn't automatically exclude him from liability. What he does to remedy the situation solidifies his place in whether or not he is a responsible petowner.
I see what you are saying though. In which tank would a single lone guppy more happy? A 10g or 200g? Obviously the 200g would provide the guppy a more "natural" environment with respects to free space to move around and inhibit its natural characteristics. And I agree with you that not everyone can provide their fish with an idealistic dream situation. Nonetheless, there is a fine line between providing a fish with an idealistic habitat and providing your fish with meer living quarters. If all you plan to do is house your fish with bare minimums and do not take into account any regaurd to well being, then most any tank will do for most any fish. However, it is my goal, and the goal of most serious hobbyists, to provide my fish with the most suitable long term living conditions I can provide.
No matter which way you cut it though, there are certain fish that 90% of aquarium owners are simply not able to house....and shouldn't.
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"Having said that though, it does not excuse nor condone attitudes such as yours that say just because we can only afford a 20g tank that should excuse us if we choose to house inappropriate fish."
Attitudes such as mine? If you're implying I'm advocating keeping unsuitable specimens in a small tank, I am not. Obviously the implied sarcasm and in some cases outright obvious sarcasm was overlooked by people such as youself. Read carefully, before taking siege on someone's statements.
Attitudes such as mine? If you're implying I'm advocating keeping unsuitable specimens in a small tank, I am not. Obviously the implied sarcasm and in some cases outright obvious sarcasm was overlooked by people such as youself. Read carefully, before taking siege on someone's statements.
"So, an oscar would feel like an abused turd in 10 gallon tank, an unappreciated nerd in a 55 gallon tank, be happy as a clam in a 90 gallon tank, feel like a frickin' king/queen in 180 gallon tank and think they died and went to heaven in a 300 gallon tank? If you think that is a run-on sentence (ros for you acronym loving people), you're right, you win a prize!
Wouldn't he/she be much happier in it's natural environment? Let's draw the line somewhere in the sand folks! Be careful about downplaying someones 55 gallon tank in comparison to your own 90 gallon, when that 90g. lacks the measurement superiority of the 180g...lol"
Perhaps i misunderstood this earlier post, but it is this post that I am going by.
I got the impression that you were of the mindset of "Well, 55g is all I can afford or have the space to keep so thats the best I can do for my Oscars and other larger fish."
To me, and others on here, this is simply not a responsible attitude.
Wouldn't he/she be much happier in it's natural environment? Let's draw the line somewhere in the sand folks! Be careful about downplaying someones 55 gallon tank in comparison to your own 90 gallon, when that 90g. lacks the measurement superiority of the 180g...lol"
Perhaps i misunderstood this earlier post, but it is this post that I am going by.
I got the impression that you were of the mindset of "Well, 55g is all I can afford or have the space to keep so thats the best I can do for my Oscars and other larger fish."
To me, and others on here, this is simply not a responsible attitude.
