DOC and Potassium Acetate

To what end?

I'm not sure that the comparison can be drawn between a forest stream ecosystem and a closed tank. Generally, denitrification is attributed to anaerobic bacteria. Whether this can be facilitated by increasing DOC is one thing - the ability to maintain a proper environment is another. Many marine aquarists utilize the anaerobic denitrification provided by a deep sand bed, either in-tank or in a remote sump. This principle has not proven itself in freshwater aquaria (at least as widely as in marine) - mainly due to the fact that the denitrification can result in hydrogen sulfide gas, and the belief that these gas pockets can actually crash a tank system when released from the sand bed or other anaerobic environment.

But can be a little dense sometimes so maybe I'm completely missing the point of the article here...
 
sploke said:
To what end?

I'm not sure that the comparison can be drawn between a forest stream ecosystem and a closed tank. Generally, denitrification is attributed to anaerobic bacteria. Whether this can be facilitated by increasing DOC is one thing - the ability to maintain a proper environment is another. Many marine aquarists utilize the anaerobic denitrification provided by a deep sand bed, either in-tank or in a remote sump. This principle has not proven itself in freshwater aquaria (at least as widely as in marine) - mainly due to the fact that the denitrification can result in hydrogen sulfide gas, and the belief that these gas pockets can actually crash a tank system when released from the sand bed or other anaerobic environment.

But can be a little dense sometimes so maybe I'm completely missing the point of the article here...
Click to expand...

One implication is that Potassium Acetate would provide the major nutrients Potassium AND CARBON ... I think the denitrification would, most likely, come from the increased plant growth consuming the available nitrates in an appropiate ratio to the potassium and carbon introduced.

I have tried a homemade denitrification setup, ~40 ft. of 2" PVC pipe, cut into convienent lengths, folded back and forth upon itself with two 90 degree fittings--this system was very effective. The aerobic bacteria would concentrate at the waters entrance into the system. After this bacteria had consumed the available oxygen from the water, along a length of the pipe, the remaining length of the pipe would concentrate with anerobic bacteria--which were responsible for conversion of nitrates to nitrites, while this is suitable for SW tanks, it would NOT be for freshwater ... indeed, it implies, in freshwater, you would end up endlessly cycling the nitrites to nitrates, then back again, and-so-on--a theoretical endless loop ...

Regards,
JS
 
Take a look at Diana Walstad's "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium", in her book she goes through the processes that naturally occur, and tries to recreate them in her very low-maintenance aquariums.

She touches on creating and maintaining DOC, and the role of bacteria like you've touched on for denitrating and even Hydrogen Sulfide prevention/removal. Pretty much what your article talks about. But no mention of potassium acetate production, she believes that fish and their food provide enough nutrients.
 
the question would be, is the carbon provided in potassium acetate in a usable form for plants (i.e. as flourish excel is a carbon replacement for CO2).

I have seen coil denitrators, although in freshwater I was under the impression that the denitrification results in N2 gas rather than NO2.

My position has been that, while reducing nitrates is great, they are not the only dissolved organic compound that needs removal, just an easy one to test for and therefore simply an indicator of TDS levels. I.e. even with a functioning coil denitrator, I am not convinced that water changes would not be necessary.
 
sploke said:
the question would be, is the carbon provided in potassium acetate in a usable form for plants (i.e. as flourish excel is a carbon replacement for CO2).

I have seen coil denitrators, although in freshwater I was under the impression that the denitrification results in N2 gas rather than NO2.

My position has been that, while reducing nitrates is great, they are not the only dissolved organic compound that needs removal, just an easy one to test for and therefore simply an indicator of TDS levels. I.e. even with a functioning coil denitrator, I am not convinced that water changes would not be necessary.
Click to expand...

Yes, Potassium Acetate would provide (pseudo) organic carbon. It is used in SW aquariums, however, calcium hydroxide (lime, pickling lime, etc.) is neutralized with white vinegar to form calcium acetate--here the calcium is of great benefit to the tank (SW), and calcium chosen for that reason.

I am glad you mentioned the "gassing off of nitrogen" (N2.) Although I have given away the denitrification "pipe" I had constructed, I am now considering constructing another and seeing if it works! Thanks for the idea ...

Regards,
JS
 
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