Does this Gold Barb have Columnaris?

[bluetik]

I'm not sure I'm doing this right -- I've never attached a photo to a post on a forum.

Anyway, about 6 weeks ago, I was "gifted" some fish from my neighbor's 20 gallon tank -- she adopted a dog and was consumed with that, so couldn't take care of her fish any more. I got:
2 Gold Gourami
4 Gold Barbs
6 Cherry Barbs

The fish all seem healthy, except the Gold Barbs -- 3 out of 4 of them seem kind of sickly. If you can see the attached photo, you can see a patch of greyish skin on the fish's back -- 3 of them have this. It seems to be getting a bit less pronounced. Also, the fish in the pic looks like it has a bit of popeye -- this is now resolved. One of the fish has developed a couple of lesions since I've had them -- the first on her side (a red wound which healed in about 4 days after I added some salt); the second was a red and inflamed anal vent (this also resolved itself in a matter of days). Now, two of the barbs have white spots on the tail fin, and three are showing what looks like a split on the frontmost section of the dorsal fin. They were also doing some shimmying in the first weeks after they were re-homed here -- I thought it was some kind of courting behavior, as they seemed to shimmy at one another, but now I'm reading that can be a symptom of Columnaris. The shimmying has now stopped.

Could this be Columnaris? The main thing that stumps me is that everything I read says this disease is very virulent and deadly. But the fish have been displaying these symptoms since they came here 6 weeks ago. They are voracious eaters and seem to behave fine -- no bottom sitting or anything like that. Also, the Gourami and cherry barbs seem completely unaffected.

What do you think? I want the white stuff off their tails at least, before I move in my 3 otos, which are currently in QT. I have been feeding the Barbs and their tankmates antibiotic food with Sulfa drugs.

I have some Pimafix and Melafix -- I was thinking of trying this before antibiotics, in an attempt to preserve the bio filter.

Oh yeah -- here are my tank stats:
46 Gallon bowfront
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 10 ppm
Temp - 80 F
Ph - 7.5
The tank has been set up since early September -- I was 80% through my fishless cycle when the neighbor showed up with a bucket of fish
I have about 60 live plants in there
Stock list above

Any advice is very welcome. If you need any more information, please let me know.

If you can't see the pic, let me know and I'll post it from an online photo hosting site.

Thanks in advance!

Char

 

[Zebulon]

Here's some q's. When you say shimmy, do you mean that the fish are flashing against the substrate/deco? Any idea how old they are? Any redness/pinkness around any specific parts/fins? How chubby are they?

Good appetite is a good sign. Do frequent water changes to keep the quality up and see if the symptoms subside.

 

[bluetik]

Hi Zebulon,
Thanks for your response. Although I have seen these fish flashing from time to time, by "shimmying" I refer to a movement like vibrating -- it looks almost like they are shivering from being cold. Though I haven't seen this in a while, I just observed it again in my tank this morning, and have almost decided it is behavioral. The two males were swimming (or more like hovering) laterally to one another, nose-to-nose, trying to rub against and bump into one another, and then one of them started this shimmying / vibrating thing. Perhaps this is how they "fight" or establish dominance?

I don't know how old they are. I will try to check with my neighbor. I am assuming they are adults. The females are quite chubby -- the males, of course, are slimmer, but do not look emaciated. No specific red areas -- the areas around the grey lesions (if that's what they are) are not red. Just the one (I think it was the same one) female had the red lesion on her side just after they moved here, which healed, and later what looked like bleeding from the anal vent -- very red and inflamed about a week ago, which also healed. That is when I introduced the antibiotic food, which contains Sulfadimethoxine and Ormetorprim sulfa.

I just walked out to check on them, and now the male with the white spots on his tail is flashing against the driftwood -- he is the same one who was shimmying earlier.

I've been changing water weekly, around 30%. Do you think I should step it up? I really think these fish are capable of surviving this, whatever it is, as they have been living with the various symptoms for 6 weeks now. But, I would of course like to get it resolved, for the sake of their comfort, and the safety of their tankmates.

I think I might try a partial water change and adding the Melafix and Pimafix tonight, if I don't hear from anyone that this is a bad idea.

The Otos have been in Quarantine for 3 weeks now, and I'd like to get them moved over to the main tank soon, as I fear they are starving in the QT tank . . . despite my best efforts to supplement their diet with veggies and wafers. The main tank is now chock full of delicious diatoms.

Thanks again!

Char

 

[Zebulon]

White spots could be Ich. Do they look like grains of salt? This could be a problem you'd want to take care of soon if it were the case. If the white spots are more blotchy looking and not raised then it could be a number of things including fin rot. A better pic would help.

Gold barbs are not a long lived fish, five years or so for the majority, and in their old age seem to become prone to injury. I had one female who suffered from a small injury to her side like the one you described which cleared after two days. I think a lot of the minor coloration issues you see are from bumping into objects and generally not being as resilient to water conditions or common maladies as they were as youngsters.

I'd do 50% water changes for a few days in a row as you watch their condition. And try to get some clearer pics if you can.

 

[bluetik]

Much thanks again, Zebulon. I am horrible at fish photography, but here are two pictures from yesterday. The previous pic was from a few weeks ago.

I think you can clearly see the white spot on this Barb's tail. One of the female barbs also has a few smaller spots on her tail. No spots anywhere else on the body, just the grey patches in front of the dorsal fin, and these tail spots. The spot on these pics appeared after I did a substrate change-out and added some plants. At first, it was very visibly fuzzy, not flat on the tail. Now it appears to be flat on the tail. It hadn't occurred to me that it could be an injury from netting him out of the tank to switch out the substrate, but your message from last night started me thinking in that direction.


I notice he is flashing a good bit more today, though. I will go to daily H2O changes for a while, as you suggest, and see if it resolves on it's own. How long should I give it before trying to medicate? The situation does not seem urgent at this point.


Thx again!

 

[gcis]

I had some type of white spot on one of my bolivian rams when I first got it. It wasn't columnaris and it wasn't ich from what I could tell so I did some water changes and raised the temp slightly while adding some Melafix and sure enough in about 5 days it was gone.

 

[Zebulon]

If the spots arent raised and multiplying, I'd wait it out but watch them carefully. I'm also betting that it is the flashing, not your netting that has caused much of the other discoloration. They bang into stuff and are generally rough on themselves when itchy. There could be a problem that needs to be addressed, internal or external, but at this point it's hard to diagnose. You said earlier that you have mela and pimafix. Melafix is good for speeding recovery of the external injuries, might address the itching, and cant hurt as long as you arent using anything else. Pimafix wont interfere with mela and cant hurt either, dose both per instructions, after your WCs. I'd say your temp is high enough right now, 81-82 is the highest id go with these guys for any sustained period. Save the high temp period to combo with real meds if and when you decide you need them. Imo.

They look pretty healthy to me. The redness on the bellies is probably from flashing too. Itching down and back there could mean something internal is bothering them. Another option for the tail spots would be to net one out and examine it up close, dab with diluted peroxide on a q-tip, or otherwise attempt to gently remove it to see how integral/attached it is. You'll have to judge how gentle your own touch is to know how comfortable you are with directly addressing the spots in this way. These are very hardy fish and generally if kept in high quality water, with healthy diet, will fight off most problems with little or no intervention. Your observations that they arent suffering or sick seems to indicate to me that they are still strong. Still I'd keep a close eye on them to ensure any symptoms dont get worse or spread to their tankmates.