does water change once a year!

I forgot to mention that my zero water change tank was lightly planted. It was situated next to a window and received morning sun so the back of tank was covered with green algae. It's not a zero maintenance tank as I had to periodically prune the overgrown plants and scrapped off algae from the front glass. I did not employ otto but the Molly, guppies, swordtails and snales all helped harvest some of the algae. The water was always crystal clear, never yellowish, except when I disturbed the substrate creating a cloud of dust.

I don't agree that water change is essential to replenish trace elements in a planted tank. Fish food itself and periodic topping of evaporated water will furnish all the needed nutrients.
 
I think the method of water changing makes all the difference. Like I said before, I syphone the gravel when I do my water changes. Depending on the flow of the tank syphoning the gravel not only takes out the waste, but also the toxins that tend to settle more towards the bottom IE: Ammonia....

A big factor is the condition of the water you are replacing in your tank. City water or well? Have you ever tested it straight from the tap? Egad, when I worked at the pet store back in my younger days people brought in water from their tap that wasn't fit to drink let alone for fish to survive in.

Another factor is temperature. I live in Florida so it's a bit easier for me to maintain tank temps. Long ago I used heaters during the winter months for my angel fish fry....until I took it out for a water change and upon replacing it in the tank...it exploded. (ALWAYS unplug your heaters! Cleaning glass shards out of a tank is NOT fun or easy!) At any rate, I don't use heaters. I never allow direct sunlight or my ac/heat vents to be pointed directly at my tanks. Why? Because quick temperature changes trigger disease and parasites. Diseases and parasites are always present in your tank but will remain dormant unless triggered by a temperature fluctuation. If a heater is necessary for you to maintain a constant temp then by all means use them...

A death in any of my tanks is a very rare occurance. Maybe it's luck, or maybe I just know how to pick the tough ones out, but I never seem to have the contant problems everyone else has. This may be in part because I refuse to add chemicals to my water. Call me crazy, but a chemical cocktail just doesn't seem like it would do anyone a whole lot of good. I could babble on about little things I do, but I figure i better end this novel right here. ;)
 
but also the toxins that tend to settle more towards the bottom IE: Ammonia....
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ammonia doesn't settle, on the contrary it dissipate evenly better and faster than almost any substance in existance.

I fully agree that good vaccuming s as essential as water changes. I am still curios about your nitrate and tds levels. Obviously testing for TDS's is a little more complicated, but I would be somewhat worried. I design my maintenance based on nitrate levels in a non planted tank, and use that for a model with my planted tanks since the plants use some of the nitrate and make it more difficult to minitor. I don't overstock, I certainly don't overfeed, and I still have to do weekly water changes to keep my nitrates below 20 ppm.

A big factor is the condition of the water you are replacing in your tank. City water or well? Have you ever tested it straight from the tap?
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Most of us have tested our tap water, and many of us use the water compnay reports for additional information as well. No one is suggesting you replace bad water with worse water, many people use RO water for this reason.


Another factor is temperature
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Agreed, I don't and I"m sure others don't change our tank temp when we do water changes, It's not like it's difficult to adjust temp before the ater goes into the tank.

Diseases and parasites are always present in your tank but will remain dormant unless triggered by a temperature fluctuation.
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While I agree that there are some bacteria and fungus present in most tanks, Parasites are a far different story. I assure you there are none in any of my tanks except maybe the active q-tank at this moment, nor will there be any introduced. And again, I don't stress my fish, so the threat of secondary bacterial or fungal infections is really non-existant.
This may be in part because I refuse to add chemicals to my water. Call me crazy, but a chemical cocktail just doesn't seem like it would do anyone a whole lot of good
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Not sure who suggested a chemical cocktail, but I fully agree that the use of chemicals is not usually necessary and should be avoided. I use filter sponges, and add enough carbonate to keep my KH at 4 dkh, other than a few plant ferts ( traces and K) I add to supplement the plant growth, nothing goes into my water.

superjohnny,
I'll check out the book,

dave
 
"Diseases are always present in a tank"... "ammonia settles to the bottom of the water column"... "water changes upset a tank's 'stability' "...

These are some of the myths that get repeated over and over, without any evidence or supportive logic (as has been the case in this thread), that newbies read and eventually believe.

One person may have fish that survive for years without water changes, but dozens more will have fish that have repeated bouts of mystery illnesses because they're swimming in water loaded with nitrates, dissolved organic compounds, pheromones, etc.

I don't think anyone is taking this exchange personally, but I don't see any point in letting blatantly incorrect statements stand. It doesn't advance the hobby and it doesn't help the newbies.

Jim
 
Ammonia and most other toxins will indeed stay closest to the source from which they are created (That's just common sense.) UNLESS the water flow is enough to effectively churn the water. Other factors do apply to flow such as decoration and such, but as with any tank you will get varying results.

Some diseases and other nasties ARE always present in a tank and will lay dormant until stimulated. A UV sterilyzer is really the only way to effectively kill off those domant nasties. Yes, parasites included. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but these are facts that the largest fish farms in the world have proven. Go visit and you'll see for yourself. I have.

The remark about water stability was just a cheap jab about overly frequent water changes. lol Let it go.... My comments are not blatantly incorrect. In fact, they come from extremely reputable sources. I accept that there are things you may know that I don't, perhaps you should take the same stance. You don't HAVE to follow my advice, but this is an open forum. By the way, how exactly do pheromones cause problems? Never heard that one before.
 
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Ammonia dissosocaites (sp?) into water ammazingly fast. So your comment is moot there. Certain toxins will sink yes.

It is still a really statment to compare a fish tank to the largest fish farms. Of course they would have more diseases and parasites. They have huge volumns of fish coming and going and in the end the loss of a few fish is not a concern. But my tanks have never had ich and I have large water temp changes often when I do water changes. How else will my cories breed? Parasites come about due to the fact that people rarely treat to the full extent. Ich takes 3 weeks or more to get rid of. Most people stop when the symptoms stop showing.

Once again all we ask is proof for statements like "Ammonia and most other toxins will indeed stay closest to the source from which they are created (That's just common sense.)" :confused:
 
Originally posted by TKOS


Once again all we ask is proof for statements like "Ammonia and most other toxins will indeed stay closest to the source from which they are created (That's just common sense.)" :confused:
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This is just getting to the point of being arguementative and a waste of time....

If you smell gasoline fumes will the scent grow stronger as you get closer to the source of the gasoline? YES. If the water is not turblent enough then fluids heavier than water will sink to the bottom. Much like salad dressing seperates. What further proof do you really need and how would you recommend I go about proving this to you on a message board? :confused:
 
Pheromones are hormonal chemicals that animals release to communicate. Often, pheromones are used to communicate readiness to breed. Water that is fouled from lack of water changes will be so full of pheromones that fish may or may not breed.

Sorry, but I contest your "common sense" explanation about toxins, especially ammonia, congregating near the substrate. Ammonia forms in many places and unless you radically overfeed, a major source will be the fish themselves, which excrete (respire?) ammonia as waste. Ammonia is highly soluble in water, and it won't congregate near the substrate.

What diseases and 'nasties' are always in a tank, dormant? How do you know? Not all pathogens have a dormant state nor can they necessarily live without a weakened host to serve as a vector. Moreover, most pathogens don't exist in a free-floating state (mycobacteria are a notable exception), so UV units won't really make a dent in their populations.

I don't mean to be overly argumentative (just a LITTLE argumentative :) ) but it's important for those reading these threads (esp. those new to the hobby) to realize that some of this is more than just opinion or personal practice; some beliefs are born out and supported by evidence or logic and others are not. There is very little evidence (none, that I've seen) to support the contention that infrequent water changes in FW tanks are better than frequent changes.

Jim
 
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The atomic weights of nitrogen, hydrogen, and oxygen are 14.0067, 1.00794, and 15.9994 respectively. Ammonia is NH3 which has an atomic weight of 17.03052 and H2O has an atomic weight of 18.01528. It appears that ammonia is lighter than water however, when ammonia is added to water ammonia acts as a weak base pulling a hydrogen atom from the water to form ammonium "HN4+" and hydroxide OH-. Ammonium has an atomic weeight of 18.03846 Hydroxide has an atomic weight of 17.00734. Now what this means is that if the flow is NOT sufficient then ammonia will stay where it is created and only very slowly dissipate into the water over all. Most of the ammonia production occurs at the bottom of the tank....

If you want to learn more about dormant nasties etc etc, see if your local community college offers a course in aquaculture.

I'm not saying that weekly water changes are bad. I'm saying that they are a little overzealous in MOST cases. I do monthly water changes myself, but AGAIN, I am a little overzealous in the filtration department. Someone with a less effective filtration system may benefit from weekly changes.
 
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