Easy and complete CO2 system?

A needle-valve regulates the amount of CO2 that enters the tank so you shouldn't have to worry about the end of the tank dump issue. At least that's what I've heard...

My setup cost a grand total of $168 including the regulator, solenoid, needle valve, bubble counter & new filled 5# aluminum tank. The aluminum tanks are quite a bit lighter than the steel ones.
 
220watts of light and a 90 gallon is great!
You will have more plants to select from for sure!

Let us know more, and when you get it...
 
Here's mine...
CO2_setup.jpg
 
Couple of follow up questions-

1) When deciding where to place the reactor- does it matter how near/far it is with respect to the filter intake/output?
I know about not wanting surface agitation. But my tank has a quite distinct water circulation pattern and I wonder if there are recommendations as to actual reactor placement.

2) If I use a pH controller will that effect my water changing?
Say my water is pH 7.4 and the controller is set at 6.5.
What happens after a 25% water change?
Am I going to have to use pH adjusted RO water oh PLEASE not another device!! or does something else happen?

3) I have gotten my KH up to 4 in this tank.
Is that high enough?
There's a decent fish load in there, and my power does go out from time to time. I'm not entirely sure all the points in this question are related, but I think they might be. The phrase "pH crash" keeps dancing in my head.

Sorry if I'm being dense- I searched for a bit but got nowhere.
Why in blazes will the search mode not accept "pH"????
 
1) Not really, just don't put it next to the intake. You want the CO2 dispersed throughout the tank.

2) The pH Controller is a very fancy and $$ way to put more, and less CO2 in the tank. The more CO2 the lower the pH. I don't use one due to the cost and testing for CO2 levels not that time consuming, it's easy...

3) Link: pH - KH - CO2

On your seach for "pH" you might try "PH" instead...
 
I just came from that last link- I couldn't understand it.

That last paragraph before the table reads:
"There is on case I've seen where the addition of CO2 resulted in an increase in KH. This can happen when you have something in the tank that dissolves carbonate into the water. Seashells, crushed coral, and many gravels and rocks will do this. With the addition of CO2, the water turns more acidic, which will increase the dissolving of the minerals. It appears that increasing CO2 raises the KH, which isn't really the case. The dissolving minerals raise the KH, and the increase in KH results in an increase in pH. In a system using a pH probe and controller to regulate CO2 levels, this can have fatal consequences, since the pH controller will keep trying to lower the pH, but as more CO2 is dissolved, it lowers the pH, which raises the KH, which raises the pH. So you now have more CO2, but the same pH. So the controller adds even MORE co2. And it will keep going. So it's important to know your KH whenever using pH to judge CO2 levels. "

This is just too scary.
So does this mean I shouldn't use a controller, I shouldn't have any dissolving carbonates (I have Onyx sand), or what?

Edit: How will I know how to adjust the CO2 without a pH controller?
Do I adjust the co2 and not worry about pH?
But the water changes, man- the water changes!!
Just when I think I have a handle on it my eyes start crossing....
 
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Ok- I think I am just not understanding HOW we decide how much CO2 to allow into an aquarium.

Do you just start off with fewer bubbles per minute/hour and then check the pH/KH chart to determine your CO2 ppm?
Then adjust daily?

Then just keep the CO2 on the same timer as your lights?
Or leave the CO2 on 24/7 and run an airstone at night?

I do not want to wake up every day and check to see whether my fish are gasping for oxygen or not. I thought this was what the pH controller would control??

I swear to pete I am sober!!
 
I too have the milwaulkie set up that some folks are talking about. I also have a 10# CO2 bottle and a pH controller. I bought the regulator and pH controller from www.aquacave.com. It was very reasonably priced and was at my door 2 days after I ordered it. If you order the regulator set-up with the controller you get a $10 price break. Ends up being about $160-170. The shipping wasn't very expensive either...I spent like 8 bucks including some other stuff in my order. I think that the controller is great. I set a pH value, and the controller makes sure that's what the pH stays at. It does this by turning the CO2 flow off or on. As you add CO2, carbonic acid is disolved into the water, lowering the pH. When it cuts off...the opposite happens. In order to utilize the controller, you must have a solenoid valve. The controller works as a power switch for the solenoid, opening and closing your valve. If you set your kH to a known level, then it is very easy to regulate your CO2 ppm. A KH of 4 with a pH of 6.8 set on the controller will give you good results. The system is extremely simple. I got my regulator set up, called around, got a filled 10# bottle for $56, then went home. The regulator assembly simply screws on to the threaded portion of the bottle. If you plan on using the pH controller, plug it in, set your desired pH, throw the electrode into the tank, and plug the regulator solenoid into the pH controller. Make sure your bottle is open, set your regulated pressure to about 10-20 psi and attach your CO2 tubing to your reactor...it's a piece of cake. I think you'll be much less intimidated once you see everything in front of you.

As far as water changes and such, I think the pH controller makes it pretty easy. Just add your dechlorinated tap water and let the controller adjust your pH to the set pH value. After water changes, you will have to double check you KH and make sure it is still aroud 4 degrees (or what ever you decide). By maintaining KH and pH, the proper amount of CO2 will stay constant.

If your power goes out, the only thing that would happen, if you were using a controller, is the CO2 supply would shut off. If this happens it's no big deal. Unless you have a really big gas off through water turbulence, in which case your pH would start to rise. I wouldn't expect a big pH swing otherwise.

To regulate CO2 concentrations without the controller, you have to use the chart Joe gave you. Get a pH reading, get a KH reading, and see where they intersect on the chart. For example, if your KH is 3 degrees and your pH is 6.6, then your CO2 ppm is 23. 20-25 ppm is a good amount that will be great for your plants and won't suffocate your fish. Hypothetically, say you test your water and you have a KH of 4 and your pH is 7.5. You'd want to decrease your pH by adding more CO2 to get a desireable CO2 ppm. So you would increase the rate of CO2 entering the tank. As this happend, carbonic acid is dissolved and pH goes down. Without a controller...YOU MUST BE CAREFULL!!! if you set your CO2 rate too high, too much carbonic acid could be dissolved in the tank and will result in a drastic plumet in pH. This will probably kill your fish through shock or CO2 suffocation. When you make changes, do so VERY gradually. This is why I like my pH controller. I can set the CO2 rate pretty high and not have to worry about it. When the water's pH hits 6.8, the controller shuts off the CO2 flow until the pH is above 6.8 again. On that same CO2 page there is a calculator that figures out the CO2 concentration for you...just fill in the blanks with your water parameters after KH and pH and it will tell you what you CO2 ppm is. P.S. once you enter the values for kh and pH, the CO2 concentration doesn't show up until you click out of the last field you entered in.

Without the controller, you will eventually find a rate that will result in a constant pH. A balance will exist between the co2 entering the tank vs being gassed off.

I know this may sound a bit technical and all, but it is very very simple. If you have any questions, feel free to keep on asking.

-Jamie
 
Originally posted by Cearbhaill
.....HOW we decide how much CO2 to allow into an aquarium.

Do you just start off with fewer bubbles per minute/hour and then check the pH/KH chart to determine your CO2 ppm?
Then adjust daily?
You should check daily - at first - to be safe with the pH Controller or without it. Besides, you need to know how to check you CO2 levels by using that chart. Once you are sure the level is acceptable, then you can check weekly or mabe twice a week. With a Controller less may be fine...

I don't use a pH Controller (yet..) due to the cost of it, but hope to get one..

It's not that scary! The Controller throws a curve ball at me since I don't have one, but it seems like a good way to avoid pH swings. I'm not sure Onyx Sand should cause worry. I use Onyx Sand too...

Can't wait to see you get your CO2 going and you see how the plants love it! :)
 
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I just can't thank everyone enough for sticking with me on this- I nearly fried my brain on this one.
The tank is running and looking so nice that I just don't want to screw it up- I wish like heck I'd done this before I put the discus in.
I think you'll be much less intimidated once you see everything in front of you.
I'm counting on it.
I'm ordering later today...
 
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