Evolution vs. Creation

[ashdavid]

I can see this thread is going to turn out great. :thud:

Im not going to get involved in this.

For someone who was not going to get involed in this thread, you are not doing a very good job. This was meant to be a friendly comment, b/c I have no problem about the content of your posts there after. I just thought it was funny :laugh: (as in comedy funny, not strange funny) as to how much you ended up contributing to this thread.

 

[Slappy*McFish]

Our perception of the universe is limited by our 5 senses and that information is processed by our underdeveloped minds. Again...we simply don't have the mental capacity to understand these things yet and it has obviously confused us(mankind).
Maybe everything simply exists in the creator's mind. Could it be we're all just part of one BIG thought process? Hmmm. :duh:

 

[Watcher74]

yes, maybe we are all part of a dream.

But we were given a soul once we reached a certain level of development?

So eventually other creatures on this planet may also be given souls too?

Can we determine when that happens?

Maybe it already has happened for some, or maybe even most, of the "higher" life forms on this planet.

So who is the judge?

How do we quantify that?

Apparently we don't know. So we should act on the side of caution and act like every animal has one until we figure out how and when that happens(if there is indeed such a thing).

 

[cgrabe]

yes, maybe we are all part of a dream.

But we were given a soul once we reached a certain level of development?

So eventually other creatures on this planet may also be given souls too?

No, I'm not saying our gaining a soul was a result of our reaching a certain level of development. The soul I speak of is a purely spiritual notion and is not a product of the physical world. I'm saying that the emergence of man was part of the plan all along, and at whatever point we were sufficiently developed, God gave us our soul, and we ceased to be an animal and became man. I don't believe any other creature will ever be given a soul because they were never meant to.

I'll try to be very clear and say I DO believe we are set above all other forms of life (aside from God himself), are perfectly justified to use other life to our benefit, and also have a responsibility to be good stewards of those other lives. We may have been mere animals at one time, but we are no longer.

 

[flyingfish]

LOL . . . :soda: you aren't going to pull me into that silly circular fight Watcher! I just don't care to have an argument (I get enough of those with my 4 year old) I just thought I'd mention that I have only mentioned scientific stuff so far, and that really is what I'd be interested in talking about. I really see no reason to pull religion into it. I love science which is why I really enjoy it when Joe posts his links. It gives me a quick link to science without having to slog through the internet while my children scream for attention. BTW, I'm interested in your comment Watcher about all of life having a common ancestor. MY question is why would life keep evolving after it had found the answer to survival. I thought evolution implies that a lifeform changes to suit it's environment - Like Darwin shows with his many birds and other creatures from the island off the coast of South America. Written history, and word of mouth history is at least accurate enough for us to know that nothing as dramatic as one species evolving into another has happened that we can scientifically back up. Theories are not proof. That's why I said I believe in micro not macroevolution. Darwin displayed the worst kind of bigotry when he generalized the findings of a specific small island or two and applied it to all of life. That's a pretty big leap. :shark: No matter how many times I drain my tank to it's lowest level, and allow my fish to flop about in 1cm of water. My fish are not going to grow lungs. They were born with them or not. This process would also not cause the guppy fry to grow lungs. There are fish who can survive out of water for a time, and there are lifeforms filling every nook and cranny and circumstance of the world. What if you are meant to look for the answer to this amazing scientific question, just as I keep looking, and have fun in the process.

 

[Watcher74]

Maybe. But I don't believe so.

Saying we are "set above" animals, seems to me, to be no more correct then saying one "race" of humans is set above another "race" of humans.

The entire notion that the universe was created for humans and only humans reeks of self-importance, ignorance, and small-mindedness. We are so wonderful, God made all of it for us. Little princes and princessess. So exalted we are. All look at us in envy, you lowly dog!

I seriously doubt any being that became the most intelligent creature on their planet would think they were not special in such a regard.

Makes sense, doesn't it? Why else are we where we are? Because we are meant to be. It was all made for us. We are so wonderful.

The sun revolves around my planet!

We are the center of the universe!

We are the reason why everything exists!

I'm sorry, but it is pure arrogance. We will most likely kill ourselves. And the universe will go on. And will not care one whiff of it.

 

[Watcher74]

BTW, I'm interested in your comment Watcher about all of life having a common ancestor. MY question is why would life keep evolving after it had found the answer to survival. I thought evolution implies that a lifeform changes to suit it's environment

So you imply that the environment is the same now as it was 100 million years ago?

Not true.

During no drastic change in the environment, indeed, evolution does stagnate. During change...you sink or swim.

The entire reason why our ancestors left the trees was because the landmass of India collided with Asia.

Crazy idea, eh?

But that appears to be the truth. What happened when that occured?

The himilayas were pushed up into the atmosphere. Which, due to their content, acted like a giant scrubber(or filter, if you will) to suck CO2 out of the atmosphere.

The Earth has cooled in bursts, not gradually. When the CO2 level of the atmosphere is lowered, the planet cools(look at Venus, high CO2, extraordinarily high temp. That's a proven chemical fact, not an opinion about CO2 and heat). This made the forests of Southern Africa shrink. Making our ancestors leave their shrinking habitat and venture out into the grasslands.

Why did we start walking upright? Could be several reasons.

To look for predators over the grass. To carry food in our arms back to our group. We don't know.

But the entire point was we either changed or died. Our environment changed. So we had to change or die.

It would be great if we could reach a certain development and then everything stays stable. But the Earth changes. Our continents colide with each other, releasing other unknown creatures to compete with us. Our temperature changes, plant patterns changes due to environmental reasons, animals that live on those plants must adapt, follow, or die.

 

[Leopardess]

Look at the black/white peppered moth.

 

[flyingfish]

Watcher, thank you. (I appreciate hearing your side) Now I wish I had a time machine to go see what it was like. I think I'll just call it a night and go read some Larry Niven and just imagine what it was like. I'm exhausted. :coffee:

 

[Dale W.]

:fairy: Pleaese remember to keep this thread mellow. This is a discussion of possibilities. It is not a discussion to prove anyone right or wrong. So far you guys have kept it behind the line and I apreciate that, so lets keep it that way.

:sim: Slip cant stay out of these threads no matter how many times he tries to not hit the "enter" button :laugh:

BTW: If we did evolve from chimps (primates), why didnt all of us evolve and why are there still primates? I just have to ask.