Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution or Creation?

  • Evolution

    Votes: 40 46.5%
  • Creation

    Votes: 23 26.7%
  • Both (originally created, evolved since)

    Votes: 21 24.4%
  • Neither (???)

    Votes: 2 2.3%

  • Total voters
    86
Umm, I don't think that you can argue doubt in science based on a court case. Court trials are essentially the same as tv comercials. The point is to convince a jury of uneducated 'peers' to buy your product, which in this case is innocence or guilt. Trials may have evidence based on science, but how many professors do you see in a jury? Very few to none, I've talked to a few in my current and previous departments who've been called to jury duty. They show up and are promptly dismissed after revealing their work. They're just as happy to not stay there - which they perceive as a waste of time - but they also find it frustrating that lawyers don't want highly educated people in the jury.

But that's getting off topic. My point is that trials aren't science. The scientific evidence showing where the glaciers stopped is quite clear.

People have not been on the seas for thousands of years. People have been in little boats in lakes and near shore for thousands of years, but major seafaring travel is only a few hundred years old. The exception - depending on your definition of "major" - is the theory that the original inhabitants of S. America came from Polynesia (I may be wrong on the origin) via boats made from reeds. It's a dubious theory, but has been travelled to show it's possibility.

It never ceases to amaze me how religeous dogma followers are quick to discredit scientific evidence without (at least compelling) evidence of their own.
 
I didn't think I would reply to this thread, but I've got a story of my own to tell.
Yes. I believe in creation. I'm not looking to get into a big argument, I'm just going to state my opinion and why. And please please PLEASE don't say I'm too young to have an opinion in this.

Well, If evolution started the beginning of the human race as fish like creatures, then why are there all different species of animals? We'd all be the same, we'd all be humans in this case. There wouldn't be any animals. The only thing that would be populating the earth would be humans. And what do we turn into next? Bears? Sure, if a platy and a guppy have fry they might be half guppy half platy. That happens. And who here on this forum has seen One of their fish jump out of its tank and learn to live on land?

:/
~hc
 
I certainly would never say that you are too young to have an opinion on anything, but just from your post, I don't think you have been properly exposed to the mechanism of evolution to really know if you find it viable or not. Please don't intrepret that as a personal slight- I certainly do not mean it that way. But you have to remember evolution didn't begin with animals per se- it began with single celled organism that colonized into multicellular organisms and so forth. The reason for diversification/ speciation is that all sorts of species occupy all sorts of niches in nature. a mutation might occur to make a species more viable in one environment than another, but that doesn't mean that the first species is necessarily less viable in the initial environment. Sometimes they are, and a species will be out competed for food and other resources and become extinct. And of course I haven't seen my fish jump out of the tank and live on land- that's not how this works- but I have seen mudskippers, and clarias catfish, lungfish and frogs. Those species have evolved to live dual lives in and out of the water as they need to to breed and find nourishment. My rasboras can't hibernate like a lungfish because they don't come from an environment where they have had to adapt to survive in that way. They don't leave the water to chase bugs because their food source is also aquatic- but this is of course not to say that one day a mudskipper jumped out of the water and hung out there for a while. this change happened in response to environmental pressure. And when you ask why there are species other than humans around, I think you are making a slight mistake in logic here- just because we are the ones studying evolution doesn't mean that we as humans are the be- all - end- all of that process- we are not the paragon of evolution, a lot of species are better adapted to do exactly what they do than we are. For a species to survive means only that we or another species haven't out competed it. For example- you couldn't live like an emperor penguin could you? Or a seal? Do you eat flies like a frog or mosquito larvae like a betta? ;) If you don't, and I'm assuming you don't, then you are not in direct competition with these species. It also means that nothing else is outcompeting these species for food and habitat, and they are able to produce enough offspring to propegate themselves faster than they are being eaten. And that's why they survive. When the time comes that they no longer compete, they either die out, or genes are selected to make them a new species. That is a really watered down explanation, and of course I do not want to insult you or your beliefs, or change your beliefs, but It sounded like you had some very wrong ideas about evolution.
 
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ash said:
I ... ... ...

... ... ..... ..

...... That is a really watered down explanation, ......


Sometimes those are the best.

:D

(sorry - couldn't help it...)

Uh oh... I'm regressing...devolving...
 
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125gJoe said:
Uh oh... I'm regressing...devolving...
Guess it's time for a red jello mold.

devo_main.jpg
 
Hc,

If they had thought of evolution back in ancient Greece, I believe your statement would be a question framed by a famous philosopher. Plato or Socrates for example.

And you making that statement is a very good example of how humans approach science.

You ask a question(just like yours) and then you test it to see if it is accurate, wrong, or right with some modification.

Keep asking those questions. And then find the answers to those questions.

And as smart as you are, in 5 years or so, come back here to us old farts and teach us a thing or two.
 
Watcher74 said:
Well OJ is guilty.


YES YES YES YES YES We agree on something! Maybe an oddball thing to find common ground on, but I'll take it.


BTW, folks, I know that nobody is getting convinced, or for that matter, interested in, the other side. I see evolution as a cockamamie(sp?) human idea. There's 100% absolutely no way possible that humans evolved from primate things. Just simply not possible, didn't happen. Yes we look alike. Snakes and eels look alike, but the similarities stop there (other than the cold blooded thing).

I know the evo people here think I'm a stubborn religionist that ignores "errors" in the Bible (of which, nobody has ever shown me one unless they try to compare it to what we humans think we know about the age of the earth or evolution yadda yadda). Maybe I am a stubborn dude, but folks, I'm a stubborn dude that didn't evolve from King Kong's great grandfather. Maybe you did. I wouldn't want to believe that about myself, but if you choose to, oh well.



And lastly, people have been at sea for thousands of years my gosh how do you think the Romans travelled around so much? They could not have crushed Carthage 1700 years ago in the Punic wars without a navy. Rome had been at it since before Christ 2000 years ago. More than one = plural, = thousands of years. I dunno who was at it before Rome, but I'd wager they weren't the first.

I'm out of town for the weekend, so please accept this from me-

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!

july4th.gif
 
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I know the evo people here think I'm a stubborn religionist that ignores "errors" in the Bible (of which, nobody has ever shown me one unless they try to compare it to what we humans think we know about the age of the earth or evolution yadda yadda).

Yeah, you're right. No one has ever proven that the Earth goes around the Sun.

Everyone knows that the Sun revolves around us.
 
Someone on this board once said: "show me God and I will believe he exists"

Well, create life in a labratory from nothing more than molecules and energy and I will believe in evolution.

But I am not worried because I know (even as an uneducated layman) that it will not and cannot happen. And BTW, don't bring up something that involved a soup of existing DNA. I am talking from scratch, like your claim of how it all started here on earth.

I won't post anything else on this thread after this, but I will end with saying that it takes more faith to beleive that something so intricate came from nothing at all than it does to believe that all this was created by intelligent design. It's so obvious to me.
 
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