fahrenheit 9/11
- Thread starter Cheech
- Start date
He doesnt hate America he just hates some ugly things that have been going on there lately. He is american too, does he hate himself? NO. He doesnt even hate Bush, he just doesnt beleive in his ability to be a president and run a country. I dont either. I never have. I dont like Canada's prime minister either, but at least he knows how to pronunciate big words. 
See it or dont, no one is forcing you. I just hope for those who do see it it causes them to think criticaly about EVERY bit of information they are being fed..... in the movie and everywhere else.
See it or dont, no one is forcing you. I just hope for those who do see it it causes them to think criticaly about EVERY bit of information they are being fed..... in the movie and everywhere else.
Have you seen the movie poster for F 9/11 in other countries?
Guess what it is..
A burning american flag!
I think that criticizing Moore's documentaries and calling them propaganda is shortsighted.
All documentaries, with the exception of nature/discovery channel-style ones, are just a pretty word for propaganda. They all edit heavily to skew quotes, images, statistics to support the point of view they're trying to sell. Moore is no different in doing that than anything that's being put out by any 'documentary' or even the media, ALL the media. At least, all the media I've seen.
The popular press is terribly uncritical, it's atrocious, really. Everything post-9/11 was an unrepenting parade of how wonderful and strong we are and we can do no wrong and anyone who questions us or disagrees is anti-american or an enemy. And this followed through right up to Iraq. Then the public's taste started changing, and the media picked up on it. And now it's been a great big "I told you so" fest that shows only the explosions and instability with minor stories about the steps forward towards some form of stability and normalcy.
The indie press is no better. It's so obsessed with opposing everything that the "mainstream" or people in power do it tends to overlook whatever would put holes in it's stories.
I don't know Moore personally, so I really could say whether or not he's "anti-American". But I doubt it. From what I've seen of him and his movies, which is really very little, he just seems very critical of certain views, namely republican ones, but it certainly goes deeper. I think that Moore does disagree with certain aspects of American culture, as should all people, as good as it is, it's not Eutopia. But I think that he's smart enough to know when to make a controversial documentary about the right topic to get money and fame, and draw attention to that point.
All media presents it's facts with a skew in the intent. Your job as the educated consumer is to filter the facts from the politics. The best propaganda is based entirely on truth, but presented in an inflamatory setting. Until the media becomes a critical, thought provoking body without a bias, you cannot make an honest attack at any documentary (or documenterer), unless you do so from a neutral, unbiased footing, which is not easy ground to find.
All documentaries, with the exception of nature/discovery channel-style ones, are just a pretty word for propaganda. They all edit heavily to skew quotes, images, statistics to support the point of view they're trying to sell. Moore is no different in doing that than anything that's being put out by any 'documentary' or even the media, ALL the media. At least, all the media I've seen.
The popular press is terribly uncritical, it's atrocious, really. Everything post-9/11 was an unrepenting parade of how wonderful and strong we are and we can do no wrong and anyone who questions us or disagrees is anti-american or an enemy. And this followed through right up to Iraq. Then the public's taste started changing, and the media picked up on it. And now it's been a great big "I told you so" fest that shows only the explosions and instability with minor stories about the steps forward towards some form of stability and normalcy.
The indie press is no better. It's so obsessed with opposing everything that the "mainstream" or people in power do it tends to overlook whatever would put holes in it's stories.
I don't know Moore personally, so I really could say whether or not he's "anti-American". But I doubt it. From what I've seen of him and his movies, which is really very little, he just seems very critical of certain views, namely republican ones, but it certainly goes deeper. I think that Moore does disagree with certain aspects of American culture, as should all people, as good as it is, it's not Eutopia. But I think that he's smart enough to know when to make a controversial documentary about the right topic to get money and fame, and draw attention to that point.
All media presents it's facts with a skew in the intent. Your job as the educated consumer is to filter the facts from the politics. The best propaganda is based entirely on truth, but presented in an inflamatory setting. Until the media becomes a critical, thought provoking body without a bias, you cannot make an honest attack at any documentary (or documenterer), unless you do so from a neutral, unbiased footing, which is not easy ground to find.
Your job as the educated consumer is to filter the facts from the politics.
Completely agree with that statement. Unfortunately you have alot of people that go see this "documentary" and believe everything that is in it. That is my problem. People eating up what he has to say without doing any research of their own. I guess I just view this film a mockumentary.
Completely agree with that statement. Unfortunately you have alot of people that go see this "documentary" and believe everything that is in it. That is my problem. People eating up what he has to say without doing any research of their own. I guess I just view this film a mockumentary.
Here's a pretty good rundown of Bowling for Columbine. My understanding is that this is pretty much how he does all his books and movies. It's long but worth reading.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Yes ofcource every documentary has some bias, yet it is important to keep it within a acceptable range..
-----Propaganda-----|------Documentary------|-----Propaganda------
Most documentaries I have seen lie within that boundary.
What Michael Moore artistically and rather brilliantly does in his films is push the limit of facts to support his political agenda without uttering a single lie to give one a false impression. Every documentary presents facts to support an argument, but it is irresponsible as an author to omit other key facts and arguments of other side.
Responsible documentaries that do have slight slants but in my opinion present both sides objectively are ones shown in the discovery channel, OPB, History etc (Commanding heights battle for the world economy is my favorite. Slants pro capitalist, but fairly presents the other side)
There is no difference, yet i would argue "most" news outlets would not push the boundaries such as the likes of Micheal Moore, Ann Coulter,Sean Hanity, Stewart Smally has done.
Have I seen this film? No. I plan to but not spend any money (i.e. borrow it from a friend). I don’t want to spend 8.50 on a movie ticket, like I did with his other film. I saw bowling for Columbine. After seeing what he did to Charleston Heston in that film, enough was enough.
Quote from Michael Moore
"[Americans] are possibly the dumbest people on the planet . . . in thrall to conniving, thieving smug [pieces of the human anatomy]," Moore intoned. "We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing."
-----Propaganda-----|------Documentary------|-----Propaganda------
Most documentaries I have seen lie within that boundary.
What Michael Moore artistically and rather brilliantly does in his films is push the limit of facts to support his political agenda without uttering a single lie to give one a false impression. Every documentary presents facts to support an argument, but it is irresponsible as an author to omit other key facts and arguments of other side.
Responsible documentaries that do have slight slants but in my opinion present both sides objectively are ones shown in the discovery channel, OPB, History etc (Commanding heights battle for the world economy is my favorite. Slants pro capitalist, but fairly presents the other side)
There is no difference, yet i would argue "most" news outlets would not push the boundaries such as the likes of Micheal Moore, Ann Coulter,Sean Hanity, Stewart Smally has done.
Have I seen this film? No. I plan to but not spend any money (i.e. borrow it from a friend). I don’t want to spend 8.50 on a movie ticket, like I did with his other film. I saw bowling for Columbine. After seeing what he did to Charleston Heston in that film, enough was enough.
Quote from Michael Moore
"[Americans] are possibly the dumbest people on the planet . . . in thrall to conniving, thieving smug [pieces of the human anatomy]," Moore intoned. "We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing."
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hmm something to read
heres a little something to read.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
heres a little something to read.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
Micheal Moore is entiitled to his opinions BUT
he is a fringe figure that hurts progressive causes.
Moore is entitiled to his movie and his views, just don't take them as the gospel truth.
Just as you should not take anyone's views as the truth.
he is a fringe figure that hurts progressive causes.
Moore is entitiled to his movie and his views, just don't take them as the gospel truth.
Just as you should not take anyone's views as the truth.
