few discus questions

[D.J.]

after what was said im not goin to go with juvie discus....althouth it would be nice to see them grow.....if i had another tank to raise them in i would go with them.....but i dont...the other tanks i have are REEF tanks....

i trust my LFS to an extent......his discus he had before where real healthly looking and had excellent color.....but he doesnt have the 300g show tank for them anymore....just a 150 cube and only has a hand full of discus right now....thats why he said he can order anything i want and i wouldnt have to pay for the shipping....which is good...

i havent looked at any of the online breeders yet and no one around here breeds them....ill worry about that more when it gets closer to time....

i plan on bottomw feeders in the tank as well to help with excess food...im thinkin about 6-10 cories, 4 clown loaches, and some kuhli loaches(if the discus wont eat them)......like i said it would be around nov-jan before i have things ready for discus and can afford to buy a group of them anyways....

is it just the plants that cause the juvie discus to stunt? or just the stress?

 

[Star_Rider]

DJ
it is the water that causes stress for juvies.. add to that temp..juvies like the temp at 86-88 f.. pretty warm and not many plants do well in that range.

also , remember I mentioned diligence, you need to be up on water changes.. small daily if you want to raise juvies...(10-25%) daily with as much as 50% per day.

uneaten food must be removed as it will spoil the water.. juvie discs should get 4-6 feedings daily for optimal growth(high temp tends to speed metabolism).this means a lot of food and plenty will be uneaten. the bio filter just may have issues trying to keep up here.

 

[rich_one]

from my experience, I have had no trouble growing my juvies up on twice a day feedings. but the problem is much of what star rider touched on. the water is much warmer than for other fish, especially for juvies... higher temps tends to be better for those guys, whereas adults you can kick back down to 84 or even 82 I have heard (I never kept mine lower than 84 though). obviously, at that high temp, detritous and uneaten food rots pretty quickly, fouling the water quality. if the tank is planted, then it is that much tougher to get that detritous removed. attempting to vac a planted tank is no picnic. and few, if any, plants, can stand those warmer temps on top of that.

as you can see, it can quickly become a case of one issue compounded on top of one issue. and learn from my mistakes... I tried to prove the theory wrong and grow some Juvies in a planted tank. didn't work.

with adults, you will not have these problems. you will still need to do your water changes, but certainly not 50% daily. I did mine once a week, and my fish were fine, until I made a mistake with my water temps one day during a water change (I was distracted), and they never recovered from that, unfortunately.

 

[D.J.]

ok...thanks guys....adults it is then.....water changes are nothing new to me since i have 2 reef tanks.....have to keep up on tank husbandry with them.....

is ther eany issue with the above said clean up crew that i would like in there with them?

what abou neon tetras.....i know that discus are carnivores but would they eat the neons?

and filtration...still not answered....canister or back pack? or does it matter?

 

[Dkarc]

is it just the plants that cause the juvie discus to stunt? or just the stress?

You cannot keep a planted tank clean enough to properly growout juvie discus. Discus are very sensitive to dissolve organics in the water. Dissolved orangics create chronic stress to the fish and any organism that is under chronic stress will have a compromised immune system. This compromised immune system is what creates problems long term for any fish. Juvies are much more sensitive to this than adults, which is why adults are suggested most of the time if a planted tank is what you're after because they will do better overall long term when compared to juvies. This stress in a juvenille discus will result in fish that hide, dont eat very well, always dark, and will not grow very much (become stunted). In a bare bottom tank you can keep the tank spotlessly clean (literally) and have no issues with dissolved organics given that water changes are done in proper fashion. If you are still really adamant about a planted tank with discus then I strongly suggest larger discus....young adults at bare minimum (4.5"+).

-Ryan

 

[rich_one]

You cannot keep a planted tank clean enough to properly growout juvie discus. Discus are very sensitive to dissolve organics in the water. Dissolved orangics create chronic stress to the fish and any organism that is under chronic stress will have a compromised immune system. This compromised immune system is what creates problems long term for any fish. Juvies are much more sensitive to this than adults, which is why adults are suggested most of the time if a planted tank is what you're after because they will do better overall long term when compared to juvies. This stress in a juvenille discus will result in fish that hide, dont eat very well, always dark, and will not grow very much (become stunted). In a bare bottom tank you can keep the tank spotlessly clean (literally) and have no issues with dissolved organics given that water changes are done in proper fashion. If you are still really adamant about a planted tank with discus then I strongly suggest larger discus....young adults at bare minimum (4.5"+).

-Ryan

Ryan! Howya been, buddy? long time no talk to!

Man... did I EVER learn a lot about discus from THIS guy!

-Rich

 

[D.J.]

HEY GUYS.....another question on this.....if i leave out the plants and decor in the tank to make it easier to clean the gravel can i house juvies? i was talkin to my personal supplier and he can get discus juvies for CHEAP(his cost which is what i pay) his adults are about the price they are in stores...around 70-90ea......


or is it just BEST to not keep juvies unless in a BB tank? like i said ill have a clean up crew in the tank as well if that matters at all.....

 

[Star_Rider]

it is best to keep juvenile Discus in a bare bottom tank.

as mentioned it is the easiest way to supply the Juvies with optimal clean water. this will allow the discus the best opportunity to grow.


simply put.. this will be the easiest system to maintain.

while young discus can be kept and raised in a planted tank you will be running the risk of compromising the health of the young discus. and you will need to keep a very strict routine of maintenance.
(it's a lot of work)


if your personal supplier is a discus breeder than you may want to consider this person as a source for fish.

otherwise look for a local breeder.

 

[D.J.]

ok...thats what i wanted to know if it was possible to keep them in just a tank with gravel.....

he's not a breeder but runs his own aquarium maintance and setup company and is a good friend of mine....i didnt ask him where he was getting them but i can when he comes by tonight to drop off some stuff for my reef tank...

is $90 about right for a 6in adult? or is that on the high side? would that size be the best to go with? he can quarantine them for me in his systems...i think...id have to ask on that as well....not sure if he is setup to QT discus or not since he has not dealt with them before.....

also has anyone order discus from FOSTER AND SMITH? seen them on there while i was browsing....they have a facility 2hrs from me in rhinelander,wi and i could pick them out there....

 

[Star_Rider]

I have always gotten discus from breeders. the price will vary depending on the source and the quality of the fish.

some color variants may demand a higher price also wilds usually run a bit more.

shop... check sources here too. Pop usually has good fish at reasonable prices

remember too that young discus will usually be a bit cheaper in price .


http://www.poppopsfish.com/discus_4_sale_16.html