fighting cichlids

[reptileguy2727]

in this case risk does not make life worth living, it can end it. i dont think there are absolutely no pathogens or parasites that can pass from insects, worms, etc. to fish, and even if there are none, there are other risks such as chemicals (if you collect them from outside which shouldnt be done in the first place). in the end i know pellets and other prepared foods are safe and i i know there are enough of them to provide a varied diet. thtas what i would do and recommend, it is the safest thing to do, and when you are responsible for the animal's life, you should do everything you know of that is good for it, and nothing that you know may not be.

there are many different outcomes an overstocked tank can have. i do not think the liekly one is a bunch of fish in a clean and enjoyable tank that dont mind sharing space with eachother. diffusing the aggression i know can work in some cases, but i think of it like this: if each fish puts out x amount of aggression, and there are 20 other fish in the tank, then they can only put 1/20 of x out to each fish, but each fish is getting 1/20 x from each fish, still adding up to 1 x. (tell me what you guys think of that theory) the most likely outcome from my experience is the biggest/most aggressive fish takes charge and all the others suffer for it. and you still have an overstocked, dirty, hard to keep up with the maintenance tank. the most successful tanks are low stocked, where everyone gets their share of food, is low-stressed (as long as you remove bullies or the ones who get picked on), and they end up with the best colors and size.

 

[jadefoodog]

Let's define overstocking. I think you're reading things into what I'm writing that aren't there. Since this is going no where, have a nice day.

Mark

lol overstocked is kinda self exsplanatory, too much fish for too little tank.
over ... stock ... over reasonable stocking limits.

thats the context i origionally used it in , if you intended it any other way youshouldnt have quoted me or mentioned my name when you wre talking about your crowded tank theory

dont get me wrong im a little spirited when i write things i think, im not mad at you or dislike you. in fact if i wasent stuck at home today on my day off i probably wouldnt know or care that you exist. on the other hand im going to say what i think and exspress my opinions on anything i come up with. if your too fragile to handle this or get offended easily. i dunno what to say, its a hard world out there and you have to find it sooner or later.

 

[wesleydnunder]

reptileguy2727 go back and read this thread carefully, please. At no time did I advocate overstocking a tank. I simply wrote that I had witnessed different behavior in crowded conditions than that which jadefoodog observed. The crowded conditions I see are in tanks in my care at a lfs. Prior to receipt of a fish delivery a given tank may only contain a couple mixed mbuna and often a bully will pick on a certain fish. After the delivery is unloaded and said tank now contains twelve or thirteen or twenty the same bully has too many targets to focus on his previous victim. I'm not saying this always happens. I have witnessed it, though.

I don't keep fish in dirty, stressful conditions. Haven't since I killed my first goldfish. I take care of aquaria for a living and, while some of my methods aren't everyone's ( I'm sometimes the king of overkill ) I haven't killed a fish because of polluted conditions in 36 years of fishkeeping ( those goldfish were tricky that first couple years ). On my tanks I do more maintenance than is needed, by some folks' opinions. I fully understand successful, low stress tanks. I've had several and have a lovely, peaceful community 55 going right now. I've also kept a number of different cichlids over the years and have had some honest-to-joe WWF smackdowns goin' on in tanks which were stocked below "acceptable" densities. I think a lot of aggression in cichlids comes with the territory but fish are individuals and a combo that works today with a given tank may not work with an identical group next time.

Mark

 

[wesleydnunder]

"over reasonable stocking limits"...hmmm..."reasonable"... so we've finally found the authority on stocking densities. Man, has the fishkeeping hobby been waitin' a long time for you. Don't worry yourself about me being thin-skinned, young man. I stopped being bothered by whether or not someone likes me forty years ago. You think it's a hard world now? Wait until you're my age.

Mark

 

[reptileguy2727]

reptileguy2727 go back and read this thread carefully, please. At no time did I advocate overstocking a tank.

it wasnt a reply to you, it was just my thoughts on overstocking. and i have seen the same scenario in tanks as well, i just dont think it is safe to assume that is what will happen, as you have said. i work at a pet shop and we have a 90 gallon with african cichlids, as the population got down to about 4, aggression got worse. then we added about 7 more of the about the same size or better, and there is some quick chases across about a third of the tank, and some mouthing at eachother, but no damage.

 

[jagarundi]

I know a lot of people get cichlids because of their "aggressive" reputation. A lot of people buy pit bulls for the same reason. One thing to bear in mind is that for the fish this is a survival strategy -- need room to raise a family safely and with enough food. I personally think that a lot the fascination with "aggressive" fish (and dogs) is projection -- if my fish is tough, so am I. I like and keep cichlids, and I see nothing wrong with pit bulls. I just don't think we should be dependent on our fish's toughness for our own self-esteem. If you want to kick some ***, do it yourself, not by proxy.

At what point did he say that he LIKES to see his fish fight? :rant2: He stated that he would rather have them be aggressive with the food he feds them instead of each other. As for your OPINION about projection, that's all it is and like you-know-what's, everybody has one. I also like aggressive fish and I happen to own a Rottweiler as well. I like the breed. I has nothing to do with kicking someone's a$$. I'm more than capable of doing that myself. Let's stick to fish topics here and leave the dime store physcology theories at home. In response to the posters thread, you may try setting up more caves and hiding places to tone down the aggression. If you've done that and the fighting continues, try changing the tank around completely. That should also tone it down since it takes a few weeks for territory to be established.

 

[managuay86]

so it is automatically assumed that if u own aggressive fish u must be a weakling and are trying to make up for it by having aggressive fish? or aggressive dogs or whatever? wow, I guess likeing cichlids for being intellegent, parental, and owner responsive are all a thing of the past huh? ok I guess Im labeling myself as a coward becuz I hav red devils and managuense,............guy get a life ok, I find community fish kinda dull (NO OFFENSE TO OTHERS BUT IM ENTITLED TO MY OPINION) all they do is swim and eat, and if u over feed them they die, but most cichlids if they had enough they stop eating. and when mollies or guppies breed they eat their own young, thats pretty dumb. while most cichlids will defend their young to the end.

 

[Slappy*McFish]

My take on this whole thing is...
I respect cichlid aggression and find it interesting but I do not enjoy watching one fish brutalize another in the confines of an aquarium. In the wild, the attacked fish would simply swim away from the aggressor's territory. That isn't possible in an aquarium and ultimately stresses all fishes involved in the dispute...including the aggressor. I prefer peace in my tanks and will tolorate mild aggression between breeding pairs so as long as no fish is receiving any damage. A fish with torn, ragged fins that is cowering in a corner is unacceptable to me and that fish should be removed from the aquarium.
I keep cichlids mainly for their beauty, intelligence, and parental behavior. They certainly are very aware of their keeper's presence. I love their spunk just as long as no one gets hurt.