I've had 3 apistogramma trifasciata in quarantine for some time now and they've matured enough where it's obvious that I have 2 males and 1 female. The trouble now is one of the males has been shunned to a back corner. They're currently in a 10 gallon but will soon be moved to my main 125 gallon setup, so the question is should I add them all and hope there's enough space for the "loser" male to live in peace, or just take him back to the store altogether?
Finally figured out the gender ratio of my dwarf cichlids, now there's a new problem
- Thread starter Snagrio
- Start date
In a 125 gallon it's quite possible that the subdominant, "loser" male will end up with plenty of room to avoid the pair that has developed. One way to ensure this is to have lush vegetation and cover around the back and sides, with a somewhat open area in the middle, so that the two males gravitate toward opposite ends of the tank to form their territories. That's no guarantee though. You might add the pair first and see where they set up house. If they dominate one end, then the lone male probably will be fine if you release him on the other end. If they take up house near the middle of the tank though, it may be better to rehome him. There's not really any guarantees either way.
WYite
WYite
The vegetation is still a bit sparse due to growing issues (I have some vallis that've been doing fantastically but everything else is okay at best to actively disappearing at worst). But there is a big fake log cave at one end of the tank so if they claim that as their home base it might work out? I don't know.
Guess it wouldn't hurt just to see what happens at any rate. At a much bigger tank size, even if the other male still gets bullied, it would be able to find refuge easier so if I notice continuing problems it won't be in too bad of shape.
Could try to get another female but it'd be heavily based on luck. At the time I got them from the LFS (and this store is the only place that carries dwarf cichlids out of all the local places I've gone to mind you), they were the only ones of their species in stock; and nearly all the apistos they had were male by default (the reason I chose these instead of the borelli or panduro I wanted was because all they had of those were males from what I could tell).
Guess it wouldn't hurt just to see what happens at any rate. At a much bigger tank size, even if the other male still gets bullied, it would be able to find refuge easier so if I notice continuing problems it won't be in too bad of shape.
Could try to get another female but it'd be heavily based on luck. At the time I got them from the LFS (and this store is the only place that carries dwarf cichlids out of all the local places I've gone to mind you), they were the only ones of their species in stock; and nearly all the apistos they had were male by default (the reason I chose these instead of the borelli or panduro I wanted was because all they had of those were males from what I could tell).
I think I'd keep the extra male too. Your tank is big enough for 2 male territories. & if something should happen to the dominant male you'll have a spare of the right hard to find species (fingers crossed but you never know). Be sure to feed at both ends to minimize confrontations.
Sort of off topic, what's happening with your male BN? I don't think the apistos are tough enough to oust him if he's chosen the only "good " hiding/nesting spot...
Sort of off topic, what's happening with your male BN? I don't think the apistos are tough enough to oust him if he's chosen the only "good " hiding/nesting spot...
Good point. It's not like I'm trying to breed them, but wanted to have a pair since getting to see display behavior will be neat. After they've moved out of quarantine and I'm at the LFS I'll see if I can pick out a gal for the loner if they have more trifasciata in stock (if they're old enough to sex that is, would really hate to get a third male), but if not an extra bachelor isn't a big deal so long as he can reliably stay out of the other male's way.
As for the BN question, he's reverted back to bunking underneath the dragon stone. I've honestly given up since like you said, the cichlids will likely appreciate the log more anyway (the other fish and snails cruise through it sometimes but it's unclaimed otherwise). At least now that the rock is shifted closer to the back wall than it used to be he's not disturbing as much sand so there's not a risk of getting himself crushed anymore.
As for the BN question, he's reverted back to bunking underneath the dragon stone. I've honestly given up since like you said, the cichlids will likely appreciate the log more anyway (the other fish and snails cruise through it sometimes but it's unclaimed otherwise). At least now that the rock is shifted closer to the back wall than it used to be he's not disturbing as much sand so there's not a risk of getting himself crushed anymore.
Cichlid breeding behaviors are fun! With or without eggs +/or fry, still interesting...Every cichlid keeper should see it at least once...I hope you do.
I'm glad you have accomodated the BN, he seems obsessed with the dragon stone. No accounting for tastes, but maybe the dragon stone has minerals or something he likes...I don't know...
I'm glad you have accomodated the BN, he seems obsessed with the dragon stone. No accounting for tastes, but maybe the dragon stone has minerals or something he likes...I don't know...
Considering it's a community setup, I doubt I'll ever actually see offspring unless the parents are crazily diligent. Not that I mind though, don't have any experience raising fry of that size.
And I think the BN is just attached to the rock out of familiarity. Before he discovered it he would always hang underneath an upturned piece of driftwood, except he was literally right in front of the main glass wall in full view of everything, which is likely why he started to burrow under things out of desperation to hide more effectively and by the time I added the log he was already comfortable as is.
What I find weird is the female BN doesn't really care about hiding, she's quite active and is constantly moving around throughout the tank no matter the time of day, always side by side with her snail and cory companions (one of these days I need to try and get a pic of her sharing a pellet with a snail, it's the cutest thing).
And I think the BN is just attached to the rock out of familiarity. Before he discovered it he would always hang underneath an upturned piece of driftwood, except he was literally right in front of the main glass wall in full view of everything, which is likely why he started to burrow under things out of desperation to hide more effectively and by the time I added the log he was already comfortable as is.
What I find weird is the female BN doesn't really care about hiding, she's quite active and is constantly moving around throughout the tank no matter the time of day, always side by side with her snail and cory companions (one of these days I need to try and get a pic of her sharing a pellet with a snail, it's the cutest thing).
Cichlids often take good care of eggs & fry...for a while. You may get a surprise survivor or 2, I have as have many others. They may need a practice round or 2 to get it right.
BN females aren't very territorial. The male makes the nest & takes care of the eggs & fry until they escape the cave. The famale only visits to lay eggs.
BN females aren't very territorial. The male makes the nest & takes care of the eggs & fry until they escape the cave. The famale only visits to lay eggs.
In a well planted 125 gallon you should see the occasional apistogramma survivor, as well as the occasional survivor of any other fish that spawn. The biggest obstacle I see to any apisto fry surviving is actually the BNs. BNs will find those eggs and nom them down before they even hatch, and apistos are just too small to really bug any pleco through it's armor. The pleco will probably just ignore them. I've seen plecos eat the spawn of just about everything and anything smaller than a jack dempsey.
Anyways, that's why I got rid of most of my plecos as I down-sized my Rift Valley mouthbrooders and went to Central American substrate spawners. Plecos are just too well armored to phase anything but the biggest cichlids that can do serious damage when they attack. Except convicts. Ounce for ounce convicts are probably the meanest cichlid on the planet.
I've never had problems with BNs digging like you have, as long as I had a good cave for the male to take up house in. The male takes good care of the eggs and you'll probably end up with a few survivors there as well.
WYite