Fish Acclimation...will this Help???

[Naja]

Hi Everybody,

As usual my situation is a bit different than most peoples, so I can use a little guidance here.....

I keep the snakes listed in my signature and they are fish eaters. I buy the fish (minnows and Comets) at a local bait store. My problem is this:

The fish are maintained at the bait store at about 45F (7.2C). By the time I get them home they are usually in the low 50'sF. The snakes are maintained at roughly 82-86F ( 28-30C). I have been using a 5 gal. bucket for transport and acclimation, but it just isn't working too well. I have too SLOWLY bring the fish up to temp and this usually takes about 36hrs with the addition of temp correct water and numerous water changes. Sometimes it works good if I can stay on top of it--if not: I have major loses mainly from ammonia build up.

I have now purchased a 22 gal. tub that I will use for the acclimation process and should help greatly.

I guess my questions are: will Ammolock and/or Stresszyme help me get these fish through this process??? Will the Dormant bacteria in Stresszyme just die-off at the low temps, or will they even have time in 36 hrs to become un-dormant and provide any benefit...???

I thought I had ordered AmmoLock ll, but regular AmmoLock is what arrived.

Would "Prime" work any better in this situation???

I have tried using a Seeded corner bubble filter, but I think the rapid temp change just kills the beneficial bacteria that's in it.

Any help would be Great!!!

Many Thanx!

 

[patoloco]

A larger bucket will help reduce ammonia build up.

To solve your problem, I'd go this way:

- Do a proper cycle (fishy or fishless. the latter better) in your new tub. Keep the filter always running.
-When you bring the fish home, do the slow temp correction in the 5 gallon bucket. When temp has been achieverd, transfer the now aclimated fish to the 22 gallon tub.

Even this way, you are likely to loose many fish at a time, for such a temp change.

If the LFS is not too far from home, you could buy just the daily ration and feed the snakes inmediately, but this would ignore the quarantine process.

Have you tried frozen food? Maybe the snakes will take it. Or you could just raise your own feeder fish (guppies and mollies reproduce quickly)

My 2¢. I'd like to know why the LFS temp is so low.

 

[indiginess]

I'd like to know why the LFS temp is so low.

i'd say that the temp is so low to reduce their losses... slow metabolism makes less waste... for most of their customers, i imagine fish longevity is not an issue, as feeder goldfish seem to be the Cheetos of the hobby.

edit: oxygen is also much more soluable at lower temps... O2 deprivation is a real problem with high volume feeder tanks.

 

[Naja]

A larger bucket will help reduce ammonia build up.

Yes, That's why I bought the 22 gal. tub--But it is FOR the acclimation process--I have a cycled tank for the feeder fish once they are up to temp.

To solve your problem, I'd go this way:

- Do a proper cycle (fishy or fishless. the latter better) in your new tub. Keep the filter always running.
-When you bring the fish home, do the slow temp correction in the 5 gallon bucket. When temp has been achieverd, transfer the now aclimated fish to the 22 gallon tub.

Been doing the temp correction in the 5 gallon bucket--that's the problem-too little water and too much ammonia building up. Hence: the 22 gal. tub. The 22 gal. tub is FOR the acclimation, NOT for "storage" or Holding. Doing a "Cycle" is pointless because the newly introduced 50F water will kill all resident beneficial bacteria.

Even this way, you are likely to loose many fish at a time, for such a temp change.

Not when its done Correctly--Per original Post: "...it works good if I can stay on top of it--..."

If the LFS is not too far from home, you could buy just the daily ration and feed the snakes inmediately, but this would ignore the quarantine process .

Not even a Possibly.

Have you tried frozen food? Maybe the snakes will take it. Or you could just raise your own feeder fish (guppies and mollies reproduce quickly).

Feeding frozen/thawed fish long-term offers a vitamin deficiancy. I have considered raising guppies, swords, mollies, etc--Honestly: Its just not worth the hassle, expense or space.

My 2¢. I'd like to know why the LFS temp is so low.

Its a Bait store, not a LFS. The fish from Bait stores are generally MUCH healthier, bigger and MUCH cheaper than a LFS. The 45F I assume aids in O2, but it also prevents disease.

I basically still need to know if the AmmoLock will convert the ammonia to the harmless/less harmful version sufficiently to help me through this 36hr process???
And, whether or not adding Stresszyme(for the Bacteria) will provide any additional benefit???

Thanx!

 

[patoloco]

Well... I feel like you hit me in the head with a big club for about an hour. :rant2:

Ammolock can help. It bonds the ammonia into ammonium, which can be better handled by fish.

As for bacteria-in-a-bottle products, it's just a waste of money. Various threads have treated that issue, and we always get the same conclusion: bacteria can not live in a bottle without oxigen and a source of ammonia. I've heard of a product called bio-spira which seem to work, but must be correctly refrigerated.

Hope thios time you won't hit me with my humble quotes. :sad:

 

[daveedka]

Ammolock should help as a short term solution during acclimation. the downside to ammo lock is the cost, and the fact that it starves our main systems of ammonia for bacteria. Since you are not concerned with building a bio-filter, the downside is mute.

Prime is siad to be highly effective with ammonia as well, but I have not personally tested it. I have yet to hear from an unhappy customer that bought prime. You may also want to post questions on Seachems Website. They are quick to respond with better than average information, and could tell you how effective prime would be and how to use it best.
Good luck.
Dave

 

[Naja]

Thanx for the Reference to the Seachem Forums. I assume that Ammo-Lock works on the same principles.

Next time I'll get some Prime.

I had/have no idea why this would not work/help, but I figured I would ask just in case somebody knew something that I wasn't aware of....

Various threads have treated that issue, and we always get the same conclusion: bacteria can not live in a bottle without oxigen and a source of ammonia.

I have read a number of those threads myself. However, Aquarium Pharmacuticles, Inc. states on their website:

Each teaspoonful of Stress Zyme contains 300 million bacteria. These bacteria are in a dormant state and become active when added to the aquarium. Stress Zyme has a five year shelf life and does not require refrigeration. Stress Zyme is effective in freshwater and marine aquariums.

Being in a dormant state--the Bacteria need little to no food or oxygen. And with a 5-yr shelf life--I would assume that they don't need any--they are completely dormant. I assume(d) that the 36 hr time period would be too short for the bacteria in Stresszyme to become Un-dormant and provide any real benefit--but I really don't know one way or the other....

The Ammo-Lock should do the Trick considering that its a short-term solution for a short-term problem.....

My Apologies, I wasn't trying to beat You over the head with a Hammer, and Thanx for Your Input!

Many Thanx!

 

[daveedka]

I have read a number of those threads myself. However, Aquarium Pharmacuticles, Inc. states on their website:


Quote:
Each teaspoonful of Stress Zyme contains 300 million bacteria. These bacteria are in a dormant state and become active when added to the aquarium. Stress Zyme has a five year shelf life and does not require refrigeration. Stress Zyme is effective in freshwater and marine aquariums.

They haved to say this or no one will buy their bacteria.

The biggest clue should be that it claims effectiveness in both fresh and marine water. The bacteria we estabilish in our freshwater tanks will not be effective in marine tanks and vice versa.

What usually happens, is that the bacteria in the bottle are not actually the correct bacteria. they may be ammonia eaters, but will not live very long in a fish tank. so If the product is alive, it will start to consume ammonia when it is added. then it makes the rapid change to dead and leaves us with an unprotected situation plus the added pollution that came in the bottle. Short term or long term it's a risky buisiness.
Dave

 

[Naja]

Hi Daveedka,

That all makes sense and I've read before about the marine vs freshwater in the same bottle. Seems like the addition of incorrect bacteria during cycling or regular maintenance would harm the real beneficial bacteria by eating its food......

And Manufacture's claims are just that: Manufacture's Claims....Buyer Beware.

But I guess for my purposes Ammo-lock, Prime, etc should do the trick and really help out. 12 dozen (144) minnows in a 5 gal. bucket builds up a lot of ammonia pretty quick....!! And my biggest problem has been from ammonia build up--especially while I'm sleeping or at work.

The Chinese Water snakes eat a Dozen Medium-sized Minnows/ Wk-Each!!!--and more if I would let them....... :coffee2:

I am hoping that this problem is solved--if it is, I may go up to 20 dozen (240) medium-sized minnows per trip!! 22 gal. tub, Ammo-lock and the 50 watt heater---I'll try to remember to come back and update this thread........

Many Thanx!

 

[Raskolnikov]

Naja,

Have you tried acclimating your minnows to the temperature change more rapidly?

I used to buy fathead minnows and shiners from a baitstore under the same conditions (water there was usually just below 50F). My quarantine tank for them was kept at 76F. I placed the minnows + some of the cool water in a 14g barrel and set up a siphon from my quarantine tank using some 3/16" airline tubing, knotted loosely to restrict the flow to a trickle. The combination of the room temperature (low 70s) and the warm water slowly trickling in would bring the minnow's water up into the mid 70s in less than 2 hours. Mortality was minimal.