Fish dying.... don't know why...

Originally posted by reefpicker
Ouch, canister filter ! :) Another not-so-good filter :P

, but the bottom line is YOU DO NOT NEED A BIOWHEEL IF YOU HAVE LR!!!!!!!
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Does it matter the age of the LR? I have had this rock for over 4 years now. Is there a capacity as to how much Nitrates this rock absorbs?

As for the mis matches systems, this was poor recommendation 5 years ago at the fish store. When your loosing fish you will listen to just about anyone to try and help save your fish.

For future reference what is the Best Filter besides the LR and skimmer or is that all I need?

Thank you
 
hi,

No, LR has no limits in terms of "absorbing" nitrates.

The whole idea behind having LR is that the deep pores of the LR can harbor anaerobic (non-oxygen liking) bacteria which can transforms the nitrates back to nitrogen.

There is no good or bad filter... Just learn one "philosphy" and stick to it. Plenums, mini-reef or LR+skimmer all have there advantages...


But going back to your problem, you should clean your canister and make sure that it is not a sink for organics.


Now as I am re-thinking this whole thing again, I wonder if your puffer released any toxins (you noted this death occured first and the others only days afterwards).

Again, I am not a puffer expert... I know some of this fish carry a powerful neural toxin, tetraodotoxin...

Did your skimmer foamed a lot after the death of this animal? how is your skimmer doing anyway?

HOw are things going with your fish today??? has anything change during this time??
 
Thanks for the LR info, I think i might splurge a little and get a few more pounds.. :)

I cleaned out my filter real good,as I thought it was filthy and it took me awhile to clean everything out. Yes I am a bad bad man.. ;) I have put a 2 month reminder to clean my filter out in my daytime and outlook, so chances are this will help in the future. I haven't cleaned my filter in over 11 months... yes again.. I am a very bad man...

I didn't notice any extra foaming in the protein skimmer at the time of death nor shortly after but thanks for the possible explanation.

Today all the fish are great I finally lower my nitrates to 20 ppm rather then 40. This was acccomplished by doing a 30% water change then followed by a 10% 2 days after. I also found in my aquarium box some Kent Marine Nitrate sponge. I know I shouldn't depend on this but I put some in my filter as a procaution. Better safe then sorry. I learned my lesson this time about forgeting those few water changes mreally cuase me a heart ache.

Thanks for al the help.

My first experience at Aquaria Central was a good one and I will continue to visit the board as often as I can.
 
It's not so tricky to understand filtration in your situation.

Protein skimmers attempt (and often succeed ) in removing organics before they enter the nitrogen cycle.

Live rock processes ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate in the outer part of the rock where water flow around an into the rock allows for aerobic conditions.
Further in the rock where conditions are anaerobic, reduction of nitrate to nitrogen gas can occur, removing nitrate.
Similar processes occur in the shallow and deep parts of sand beds, whether or not a plenum is present.

Biowheels and cannisters have a problem. They are very , very efficient in the aerobic, oxygen rich part of the nitrogen cycle, ending in nitrate, thus they are a good filtrationa lternative for predators. However they have no means whatsoever to reduce the nitrate to nitrogen gas, and thus it accumulates, unless other means are found to deal with it. Neglecting to clean your filters will only exagerate this problem - clean those cannisters weekly - get those organics out of the system before they decay!
 
Originally posted by BrianH
Your getting great advice regarding biofilter duplication. However, IMHO nitrates of 40ppm is not enough to kill fish. Lowering the nitrates is good idea but you may want to keep looking for other answers for your fish deaths.

Brian
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I found out my testing kit was past it's due date. I had no idea until my gf pointed it out. It was at 40 ppm whith a past due testing kit, ( Feb 2001) :( LFS didn't even want to take it back because I used it 6 times already. After I purchased a new testing kit that expires in 2006. :) It showed up as 60 ppm. That was right before I did my 30 and then 10% water change which eventually brought it down to 20 ppm. The water changes and the nitrate sponge probably helped in this matter.

I think the puffer died because of poor water quality and it being stressed out during the move. The Damsel, I really have no idea. I think that maybe my clown died of old age.. is that even possible?

Thanks

Jc
 
Even 60ppm should not be deadly for fish. I know some people who have FO tanks with nitrates as high as 100ppm without any fish problems. I would not recommend leaving nitrates this high but I have seen this without fish deaths.

You may be on the money with the move. The stree of moving the fish could have definitely contributed to fish deaths. As for clown fish, one of my lfs's has a percula that is 10+ years old.

Brian
 
Wow, I am happy that this discussion has turned in so many interesting details.


High nitrates are not usually toxic to fish, even wild caught fish. I suspect that high nitrates can contribute a lot to fish stress but it is probably difficult to assess.

I do not think that your clown died of "old age".

All this deaths could be related or maybe they are unrelated. It is very difficult to know for certain. I am however inclined to think that they are at least part of a chain of events. How they are linked is a mystery.

It is interesting that all this deaths occured within days of new additions to the tank. You say that this fish seem to get along pretty well. If I had to guess what this patterns of death points out to and who the culprit is, this is what I would say...

The social structure of a classroom is altered when a new bully arrives. He will pick up on someone new or perhaps on the former bully. Similary, if a "nerdy" guy comes in, the former bullied nerd might get a break and feel stronger, even to the point of teasing the newcomer.

I have seen this happen in a tank. A new comer always affects the pecking order of a tank, the territory etc. Former "friends" can become enemies and new alliances are formed ;) The result are always strange fish deaths.

That the tang could be the culprit would be my best guess, but then again this is only a guess. The truth might never be known ;)

Bottom line: Your nitrates are not OK, but not enough to kill a clownfish. (I have kept clowns at much higher ppms). Your clown was too young to die of old age, espicaly if it was a tank-raised animal. You did good by cleaning that canister. You should clean it more frequently or take it out of your system IMO.

High nitrates are a good reason to wary always. Although they have to be extremely high for a long time (chronic exposure is the real killer), it is generally an indicator of tank shores neglect and high nutrient load in the system.

BTW It is a real pleasure to be of help to you! ;) Please do post in this forum. No question is a stupid question!
 
My plan for the next 6 months is as follows:

Add 30 lbs of Live Rock

Add 1 inch of Live Sand / remove the crushed coral at this time

Add New AquaC Ramora protein skimmer

Add a R/O filter for my tank

Fill my Canister filter with the very small pieces of LR instead of the ceramic Eheim tubes and I might keep the syndered glass to to promote some bactaria growth from the LR.

I hope all of the steps above will increase the life span of my fish. I already love this hobby alot that I decided to put everything into it now. I can't wait for my x-mas gifts. :)

Thanks for all the help, it was greatly apprecited.

Jc
 
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