fish have ick
- Thread starter allecb
- Start date
While you treat for Ich you want to keep a very close eye on the parameters: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. You need to keep your water pristine to help your fish's immune system stay strong to handle the effects of the Ich protozoan, and help to resist secondary bacterial infection.
Keep ammonia and nitrites at 0, and nitrates at 20ppm or less. Do regular water changes to maintain that. Just measure the amount of water you remove, and then be sure to add the salt to the replacement water. If you can, get a bucket with measurement lines inside so you can know how much you are putting back in.
A python is OK to siphon out water, but drain into a bucket so you know the volume of water you removed. Then, let's say that you removed 20 gallons, then you want to be sure you add back 20 gallons with 40 tsp of salt dissolved in the replacement water. If you have a 5 gallon bucket you'll have to do 5 gallons at a time, mixing up 10 tsp of salt in water that is the same temperature as the tank. I kept my heat at 86 degrees.
You don't want to see-saw the temp and saline concentration of the tank with your water changes. I know this is a lot of work, but in four days at 86 degrees the Ich specks should all have dropped off the fish.
Now, don't be surprised if they look worse before they get better. Care is needed regarding dosing the salt, as the salinity can creep up to greater concentrations than desired if you aren't careful.
Once the specks drop off, they form cysts that settle into the substrate, and after a few days the cysts containing the multiplying protozoans will rupture and it is at this time that the free swimmers will be killed by the salt.
Vacuum the substrate, gently, during water changes to suck up as much of the cysts as possible. (Don't get carried away and stir up too much gunk and cause an ammonia spike) If this is the normal Ich and not super Ich, then all free swimmers are killed after a few days.
Evenso, I would go longer to make sure to get all free swimmers. Some cysts may rupture sooner and some later, sort of in stages. Really, by 10 days of treatment everything should be taken care of, but I just went three weeks and my fish had no adverse effects from the salt and heat. My Brochis and Ottos did just fine. Even most of the ramshorn snails survived it.
The salt heat method won't hurt your biofilter, and you can leave your carbon in the filter. Plants may not fare too well.
I use Prime to remove chlorine and chloramines, but it also detoxifies the ammonia and nitrites which is HUGE in my book. This way, if you find traces of nitrites or ammonia and you don't have time right that moment to do a water change, you can dose the tank with the emergency dose of Prime (5x usual dose) and then do the water change within twentyfour hours, which is about how long the Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrite.
It's a lot of work, but your fishies will be grateful... well... they won't know about it
, but they will be healthy and happy in their little world.
Keep us posted on how things are going. We're all here to help.
Keep ammonia and nitrites at 0, and nitrates at 20ppm or less. Do regular water changes to maintain that. Just measure the amount of water you remove, and then be sure to add the salt to the replacement water. If you can, get a bucket with measurement lines inside so you can know how much you are putting back in.
A python is OK to siphon out water, but drain into a bucket so you know the volume of water you removed. Then, let's say that you removed 20 gallons, then you want to be sure you add back 20 gallons with 40 tsp of salt dissolved in the replacement water. If you have a 5 gallon bucket you'll have to do 5 gallons at a time, mixing up 10 tsp of salt in water that is the same temperature as the tank. I kept my heat at 86 degrees.
You don't want to see-saw the temp and saline concentration of the tank with your water changes. I know this is a lot of work, but in four days at 86 degrees the Ich specks should all have dropped off the fish.
Now, don't be surprised if they look worse before they get better. Care is needed regarding dosing the salt, as the salinity can creep up to greater concentrations than desired if you aren't careful.
Once the specks drop off, they form cysts that settle into the substrate, and after a few days the cysts containing the multiplying protozoans will rupture and it is at this time that the free swimmers will be killed by the salt.
Vacuum the substrate, gently, during water changes to suck up as much of the cysts as possible. (Don't get carried away and stir up too much gunk and cause an ammonia spike) If this is the normal Ich and not super Ich, then all free swimmers are killed after a few days.
Evenso, I would go longer to make sure to get all free swimmers. Some cysts may rupture sooner and some later, sort of in stages. Really, by 10 days of treatment everything should be taken care of, but I just went three weeks and my fish had no adverse effects from the salt and heat. My Brochis and Ottos did just fine. Even most of the ramshorn snails survived it.
The salt heat method won't hurt your biofilter, and you can leave your carbon in the filter. Plants may not fare too well.
I use Prime to remove chlorine and chloramines, but it also detoxifies the ammonia and nitrites which is HUGE in my book. This way, if you find traces of nitrites or ammonia and you don't have time right that moment to do a water change, you can dose the tank with the emergency dose of Prime (5x usual dose) and then do the water change within twentyfour hours, which is about how long the Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrite.
It's a lot of work, but your fishies will be grateful... well... they won't know about it
, but they will be healthy and happy in their little world.Keep us posted on how things are going. We're all here to help.
thanks melody, really helpful post.
i am putting the 5 gallons of water back into the tank slowly. i think i started at around 4 or 5, and i still have 1/3 of the water left. (the sticky suggested put in a 3rd or so every couple of hours)
the neons are acting slightly weird (maybe its just me) so im gonna wait to put the 3rd in for another good couple of hours. and i only have nitrite and ammonia api test kits, but ill be sure to keep those in line throughout the way
on a side note; recently my barbs have stopped wimming, more often than not (70-80 percent of the time) they just hover around, or one of them goes in a corner and floats semi-vertical, head down..could this be because of ich, even though i dont see any spots on them yet?either way, i guess ill see when treatment is done..
i am putting the 5 gallons of water back into the tank slowly. i think i started at around 4 or 5, and i still have 1/3 of the water left. (the sticky suggested put in a 3rd or so every couple of hours)
the neons are acting slightly weird (maybe its just me) so im gonna wait to put the 3rd in for another good couple of hours. and i only have nitrite and ammonia api test kits, but ill be sure to keep those in line throughout the way
on a side note; recently my barbs have stopped wimming, more often than not (70-80 percent of the time) they just hover around, or one of them goes in a corner and floats semi-vertical, head down..could this be because of ich, even though i dont see any spots on them yet?either way, i guess ill see when treatment is done..
If your tank has been cycled for a while, you may have high levels of nitrates. If you have a lot of plants, that may not be the problem because they soak up nitrates pretty effectively. Still, you really do need to go ahead and get the rest of the testing supplies that can tell you what you need to know.
The API Master test kit will enable you to test for nitrates, and keep up with what your ph is doing. GH and KH are good to know, but you have to buy them separately.
I think you really do need to find out about your nitratesa. Levels above 20 are not good and higher levels are dangerous for the fish. Keep the ammonia and nitrites at 0 in your tank. Pristine water will help their immune systems fight the effects of the Ich protozoan, and will help them resist secondary bacterial infection.
In general - they need their water to be free of ammonia and nitrites always, and the nitrates at 20ppm or less.
PH is good to know... just to know where you are with that, though most if not all fish tolerate a wider range of ph than you might think.
You don't want to mess with ph, using chemicals to bring it up or down.
The API Master test kit will enable you to test for nitrates, and keep up with what your ph is doing. GH and KH are good to know, but you have to buy them separately.
I think you really do need to find out about your nitratesa. Levels above 20 are not good and higher levels are dangerous for the fish. Keep the ammonia and nitrites at 0 in your tank. Pristine water will help their immune systems fight the effects of the Ich protozoan, and will help them resist secondary bacterial infection.
In general - they need their water to be free of ammonia and nitrites always, and the nitrates at 20ppm or less.
PH is good to know... just to know where you are with that, though most if not all fish tolerate a wider range of ph than you might think.
You don't want to mess with ph, using chemicals to bring it up or down.
Nitrate is rarely a problem for fish. In tanks with little to no maintenance, coupled with too large of a bioload, inadequate filtration, etc. 'trates can climb into the hundreds but the fish survive aka Old Tank Syndrome. Sure, there is still the element of stress involved, but unless you are housing uber sensitive fish, a reading above 20 ppm is not the end of the world.
Heck, before I switched over to plants I kept the "oh-so-sensitive" blue rams in my 30 gallon which consistently showed 30-40 ppm nitrate before water changes.
Heck, before I switched over to plants I kept the "oh-so-sensitive" blue rams in my 30 gallon which consistently showed 30-40 ppm nitrate before water changes.
I've had 40 to 80 before and don't freak out until it goes above 80, however, really high readings could be a cause for concern down the road.
Often people get lower readings than the actual level because you have to shake the bejeebers out of the nitrate test bottle, by some accounts as much as twice as long as the directions tell you, and then the vial. People can have levels of 100-200 and higher. Of course, plants soak up nitrates for sure and help manage nitrates. I don't remember if the OP mentioned that his tank is heavily planted.
The EPA has set the MCL (maximum contaminant level) at 20ppm for humans, due to some research on nitrate consumption in human infants, and cattle.
The studies have shown that nitrates covert, by means of anaerobic bacteia, to nitrites in the intestines, nitrites are absorbed into the bloodstream and bind with hemeglobin creating methemeglobin which displaces O2 in the blood stream, slowly suffocating the fish. Brown Blood disease, Methemeglobinemia, can be present at an almost subclinical level doing damage to tissues due to oxygen deprivation.
Some researchers believe that methemeglobinemia is a contributing factor in HITHLLE due to poor O2 perfusion in the tissues, the head being especially suceptible, and combined with other factors causes Hole-In-The-Head,
Low level O2 deprivation causes stress and has a negative impact on the immune system and a strain on the internal organs, so high levels of nitrates essentially present the same issues as nitrites in the water, only slower.
Often people get lower readings than the actual level because you have to shake the bejeebers out of the nitrate test bottle, by some accounts as much as twice as long as the directions tell you, and then the vial. People can have levels of 100-200 and higher. Of course, plants soak up nitrates for sure and help manage nitrates. I don't remember if the OP mentioned that his tank is heavily planted.
The EPA has set the MCL (maximum contaminant level) at 20ppm for humans, due to some research on nitrate consumption in human infants, and cattle.
The studies have shown that nitrates covert, by means of anaerobic bacteia, to nitrites in the intestines, nitrites are absorbed into the bloodstream and bind with hemeglobin creating methemeglobin which displaces O2 in the blood stream, slowly suffocating the fish. Brown Blood disease, Methemeglobinemia, can be present at an almost subclinical level doing damage to tissues due to oxygen deprivation.
Some researchers believe that methemeglobinemia is a contributing factor in HITHLLE due to poor O2 perfusion in the tissues, the head being especially suceptible, and combined with other factors causes Hole-In-The-Head,
Low level O2 deprivation causes stress and has a negative impact on the immune system and a strain on the internal organs, so high levels of nitrates essentially present the same issues as nitrites in the water, only slower.
One thing to keep in mind though is that every fish has a different tolerance level. I would assume most of our aquarium species do just fine above 40, even 80 ppm. Just look at this:
Granted, carp are known for being tough fish but I highly doubt unless the OPs trates are off the charts that it is compromising the immune systems of the fish...but always nice to have the test ready
I agree... I don't worry if mine are 80 or so, though I do go ahead and do water changes to keep it at 20.
I just think it would be good for him to test ... just in case his nitrates are through the roof. Ya never know....
I just think it would be good for him to test ... just in case his nitrates are through the roof. Ya never know....
