Fish scars or natural variations?

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Gomisan

Man in a hat
I'm trying to answer some questions for myself about my Dwarf Gourami.

When I bought him I noticed that his striped pattern had a couple of 'glitches', which at the time I took to be natural variations in his pattern. He certainly seemed healthy enough.

Well, as some people may have read in other posts of mine, he recently devloped a 'Fin Rot' like condition, where his tail and anal fins were eaten away very rapidly by what loked like a cottony white fungus.

I isolated him in a hospital tank, and treated the fungus. His health and behaviour improved, the fungus disapeared and the tail started to show signs of regrowth. All seemed well.

Since he was now in a bigger tank, and seemed to have overcome the problem, I introduced a couple of new fish, as I didn't want to put him back in the tank with the Serape's (who may have nipped his tail and started it all)

The new fish include a couple of baby bristlenoses and a young pair of Parkinson's rainbowfish. (no comments on tank ize here, this is a temp tank for them and I have already ordered a much bigger tank that they will call home)

ANYWAY... about a week after the new fish are introduced he's got fungus again, this time on his side, two patches of cottony strands, and he's off his food again. This fungus is now responding to treatment, quite quickly, just as the first did, but it's left a big scar on his side.

Which brings me to my original question. Is this an infection which can stay dormant for long periods? is it likely that he'd had this problem before I bought him, and the marks on his side are actually old scars from previous outbreaks?

If so, is he really worth keeping? Am I going to have to continually treat him, and watch him suffer what must be quite painful infections? Will it be passed onto my other fish? (none have shown any signs yet)

I really don't want to isolate him in tank by himself all the time.

OK.. now since some people will ask... tank parameters & details:

Ammonia <0.1
Nitrite: 0
Nitrates: around 5ppm
pH: 7.5
Water temp: 27C
kH: 40ppm

Water changes: Normal regime 30 to 50% weekly, or 50% every 3 days while treating with Fungus-Ade (as per specific instructions from aquarium center).

Cleaning/Maintenance: I vacuum a seperate section each water change. Filter is rinsed every 2 weeks, never at same time as water change.)
 

Roan Art

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Gomisan,

Some fish do carry columnaris bacteria and it sounds like the meds you are using are not getting rid of it totally.

From what I can get on the web, Fungus-Ade contains malachite green and that may not be the best med to use in this situation.

Can you get your hands on Furan 2? it contains nitrofurazone and works well against this bacteria. You might have to contact a vet for nitrofurazone, but I highly recommend it. The stuff I use is 60% nitrofurazone. I use 1 cap per 10 gallons first day. 1 cap per 10 gallons second day. Water change 25%. Repeat.

Rainbowfish have a tendancy to carry columnaris as well, so you might want to treat the Parkinson's, too.

Roan
 

Gomisan

Man in a hat
Thanks Roan, thats the most straightforward advice I've received here. I've not seen that particular med 'on the shelf' and it may just be that we can't get it here in Australia, but I will ring both the big aquarium center and the vet to see.

The fungus has once again disappeared (visually) and the poor fish now has a big wound on his side that needs to heal, so I'd like to finish off any basteria now & forever.
 

Roan Art

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Gomisan said:
Thanks Roan, thats the most straightforward advice I've received here. I've not seen that particular med 'on the shelf' and it may just be that we can't get it here in Australia, but I will ring both the big aquarium center and the vet to see.
It's there, it's just restricted then and you'll have to speak to a vet. I did a search on "nitrofurazone" and "australia" before I posted and most of the Aussie places I hit said it was restricted, but I don't know how old that information is.

If you can't find/get it, I'll get in touch with the r_m_l (rainbowfish) people in Australia. There's a few of them in Adelaide.

The fungus has once again disappeared (visually) and the poor fish now has a big wound on his side that needs to heal, so I'd like to finish off any basteria now & forever.
That's the frustrating part of columnaris. It shows up whenever the fish is stressed.

IMO your Parkinson's probably reintroduced it to your tank. Treat any new fish, especially rainbowfish, in a separate tank before you introduce them to the main one.

I've gone through and treated ALL my rainbowfish with nitrofurazone. Lotta tanks and a lotta drugs, but I'm glad I did. I haven't seen a thread since and it's good insurance against stress from something unforeseen (hurricane, power outtage, you name it).

HTH
Roan
 

Gomisan

Man in a hat
I spoke with the Aquarium center, and they said they can't sell the drug, but that a few stores do so illegally here and told me what forums to ask questions on to get hold of it :) ahh what a dark underbelly the aquarium trade has.

I had a good long chat with the guy there though, and he was very concerned that being a Dwarf Gourami the fish may be carrying Fish TB, and he highly recommended I euthanise the fish immediately and take great care when dealing with the tank.

But contradicting that is your advice, and the information here: http://www.2cah.com/pandora/Disease.html#External

Where the symptoms of Fish TB don't really add up for this fish (except for the off his food bit). But those photos and examples also show columnaris as being very different to what I've seen on this fish.

The closest thing (as far as description & photos) is the 'Body Fungus'

http://www.2cah.com/pandora/Disease.html#Bodyfungus

So I am left in a Quandry.

If it IS the Body Fungus, my treament has been correct, and it's on it's way to recovery.

If it is Columnaris, I am going to need to get more drugs and treat the tank again with a different med.

If it's Fish TB I really should euthanise the fish and take a LOT of care while working on the tank.

I think I'm at the point I have to make a decision. Do I continue throwing meds and money at the problem, and nurse him back to health. Or do I put him out of his misery and save myself time/money and hopefully prevent other fish from becoming affected.

The answer, unfortunately, is that I don't want to take the risk. I 'think' it's only fungus. But I am not willing to gamble on it. I am going to prepare a Clove Oil tub for him, and then pop him in the freezer. Thank you, for your thoughts, and your advice. I think I'm going to have to invest in a better camera, so I can get clear photos and closeups in future to help me get a diagnosis on problems, but for now....
 

Roan Art

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Sure. I dunno if *they* can get you the stuff, but they might know an easy way to get it :)

Keep an eye on your other fish, tho. If that gourami does have TB, they've all be exposed to it.

Roan
 

Gomisan

Man in a hat
I've just taken some photos which show the fungus, as it seems to be breaking out again on one of the spots. (yes I haven't had the heart to kill him yet)

I've uploaded them to flickr, but I'll try and insert or link to them below.

The Fungus-Ade contains:
Malachite Green1mg/mL
Formaldehyde Solution 1mg/mL
Dehydroabietylamine Acetate 0.24mg/mL
Acriflavine 1mg/mL

and now, the images:







Larger images are on my Flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11576733@N00/
 

Darwin

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Feb 4, 2006
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Since the fungus-ade doesn't seem to be getting rid of it, have you managed got hold of the furan stuff ? If you can't get your hands on it, you could try tri-sulfa which you can get from the pet shop.

I have had good success with treating fin rot with tri-sulfa, although it's not the same thing as what you have got. The bottle says it is for, body and mouth fungus, external bacterial infections (fin and tail rot). From what I understand it is a keratolytic (helps shed the outer layer of skin). You could check out this website for info on fish medications.

http://www.syngnathid.org/articles/medications.html

Good Luck.

Oh. The website above is targeted for salt water fish but alot of the core info on meds is still relevant just bare in mind that the diseases may be different.
 
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