fishless cycling 6 weeks in..HELP

Ammonia and Nitrites should both always be undetectable in the tank. They're both harmful, can be fatal. If not fatal then harmful. Stress invites disease, burnt gills shorten lifespans. To be avoided.

Nitrates aren't great for fish, but not so bad. Under 40 is ok under 20 is better. I forget the numbers but I don't think any fish actually die until nitrates are well over 100 and most species can tolerate much higher levels.

Think of ammonia as chemical smoke, nitrites as regular smoke, nitrates as an annoying odor from traffic, garbage, your neighbors cooking, etc. The first can potentially kill you in a jiffy, the second may not kill you but is actually physically *gasp* harmful, the third isn't all that critical but wouldn't a little fresh air be nice?

pH, GH, KH, unlike the nitrogen complexes, are sort of the fixed conditions of your water. There really are no "right" levels. Its easier to go up than it is to go down but stable is more important than ideal.

KH is a measure of your waters ability to buffer acids, so if its very low you may be open to unstable pH, which is bad because unstable is bad and stable is good.

If you have moderate type water you can pretty much do what you want and most fish will adapt. Some fish are described as delicate -- the water should match pretty closely and be kept clean. Otherwise its not that critical unless you have water at one extreme or the other. Clean is always good. My water is very soft and acidic, great for SE Asian fish, S American, OK for most others, I wouldn't try a Rift Lake tank without significantly hardening the water. If your water is 7.4 your golden, if its 8.4 you might want to stick to moderate and harder water fish.
 
fishless cycling 2 months in...HELP!!

I have now been fishless cycing for two months and I have to ask myself what the heck am I doing wrong??
For those of you who have been helping me from the beginning here are my readings from today:

ammonia: 0
nitrites: 3
nitrates: 40
ph: 7.4 and has remained stable for the past few weeks
gh: 8
kh:8

I am just assuming I started the cycle all over again when I was having the ph problems (previous posts). I have been adding 3-4 drops of ammonia per 10 gal (45 gal tank). Then yesterday I dosed the ammonia to 5ppm and it was gone in 24 hours. I have read differing views as to whether I should cut the ammonia in half or not. The nitrites have been at this level for about two weeks.

I guess I am just wondering if I am on track now or if I should be doing something else. I am getting very frustrated and impatient at this point. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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Have the nitrites gone down from an original spike? It sounds like the bacteria colony that process nitrites is developing. I'd keep up the same dosing, so you will know that when the nitrites go to 0, it indicates the bacteria colony has reached the right size, rather than just a decrease in the supply of ammonia.

Patience is always hardest at the end! Hang in there!
 
The original Chris Cow article on fishless recommended cutting the dosage in half after the ammonia spike. (Take a look at Alternate Recipe for the dosing by concentration bit and Too Much Ammonia).

Since then a variant has developed where the dose is kept at the same level throughout. This seems to me to be a "more is better" sort of thing. After a number of threads like this one, and some reading on the side, it seems to me that more isn't better -- that the higher levels of ammonia tend to suppress the nitrite-reducing bacteria and cause longer than typical nitirite spikes.

At the WetFeller's SkepticalAquarist , for instance, I found this:
from his fishless cycling section
This passing "nitrite spike" is not necessary: it's nothing but an artifact created by the slower reproduction rates of the nitrite-users, compared to the bacteria that do the first metabolizing of ammonia. And some folks are suggesting that perhaps the very presence of ammonia itself has a suppressing effect on these nitrite-metabolizing bacteria, so that they aren't able to establish effective populations until the ammonia-metabolizing bacteria have stabilized and reduced the ammonia levels. Nitrite-oxidizing bacteria do seem to be more sensitive than their ammonia-oxidizing partners. In fact, under stressful conditions some nitrite can reappear, even in a thoroughly established aquarium… the nitrite-respiring bacteria are sensitive to low temperatures and low pH.
Click to expand...

I would--
1) try cutting the 5ppm dose in half.
2) heat the tank as if it had fish in it. I wouldn't necessarily go warmer, as the O2 level drops in warmer water and this is an O2 intensive process.

You may have knocked yourself clear back to the beginning of the nitrite spike, and the nitrite spike seems to be the longer phase of the two. Even so you should be winding down soon (unless you're continuing to suppress the little fellers).

HTH
 
fishless cycling 2 months in

Oriongirl and carpguy thanks so much for the posts.

Oriongirl-the nitrites have not gone down. They have been at this level for about two weeks now.

Carpguy-you are so full of great information. I actually read that article on wetmans site. Very good information. I am going to go back to my original ammonia dosing. That gets it to about 2ppm and wait wait wait some more. I basically got the ammonia up to 5 yesterday just to see if it would burn through it. Based on all of the information I have read I am pretty sure I have started the cycle over because of the ph problems that occured. I think I am almost there....at least I hope so or I might throw the tank out the window!!

Thanks AGAIN!!!
 
Hi Nichole,
I'm a relative newb myself -- I fishlessed my first tank starting around last Thanksgiving, first fish in the water just before Christmas. I'm just trying to pass along what I learned (recently) from folks like the OnionGirl and the WetFeller.

And since I seem to always learn something new at the Skeptical One's site… I followed this link to an article on fishless that I thought was much more informative than the Cow article. They recommend, in the absence of fish, boosting temps into the mid to upper 80s. Remember though that these are aerobic bacteria with a pretty hefty appetite for O2 -- if you're planning on using an airstone now is a plenty good time to start, otherwise you can get better surface agitation by lowering the water level a little bit to get better splash (assuming you've got an HOB). Since my tank is in the bedroom, I'd just go a little warmer an keep an eye on things.

HTH
 
fishless cycling who knows how long it has been at this point!!

Well I was excited today I tested my water this morning and here were my readings:

ammonia: 0
nitrites: 0
nitrates: 40
ph: 7.4
kh: 8
gh: 7

I did an 80% water change this afternoon in preparation for getting fish tomorrow and waited a few hours and retested the water and here are my readings now:

ammonia: .25
nitrites: 3
nitrates: 40
ph 7.4
kh: 8
gh: 7

I am now at a total loss. I would have thought it had something to do with my tap water but I have tested that in the past and after letting the tap water sit for several hours ammonia was 0 and nitrites were 0.

Does anyone have any thoughts???
 
My understanding is with a fishless cycle once both your ammonia and nitrite is reading at zero 24 hours or less after adding the full amount of ammonia then it is cycled. Did you add the full amount of ammonia to the water again after you changed the water, and tested a few hours after that? If so, than the readings you are getting are most likely high because you have not given the bacteria enough time to process the ammonia, it needs up to 24 hours. If not then it could be the brand of water conditioner you used to treat the new water. Some brands will sequester ammonia, thus not making it available for the bacteria to use.
 
Well I actually don't think I was cycled when I thought I was. I think I was actually so far off the charts with my nitrites that it didn't register with the color chart. The color of the nitrites was a blue grey. I thought that meant the nitrites were 0 since the 0 on the color chart was the only color my reading was remotely similar to. So when I did the 80% water change thinking I was ready for fish the nitrites really were lowered..they didn't go up like I thought. I have done some reading on this site and have found several other people that had the same problem as me with the test kit. The nitrites aren't really zero they are just extremely high and don't register on the color chart.

I also retested my tap water after letting the water sit out overnight instead of just a few hours the results aren't great.

ammonia: 1
nitrites: 0
nitrates: 0
ph: 6.8
kh: 3
gh: 7

Unfortunately I guess I will keep waiting.
 
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