fishless cycling failing???
- Thread starter Bobafish
- Start date
Wow, I didn't realize the pizza crust would generate so much interest! Nope, not kidding. Cooked, not raw, of course. And a small piece, maybe half the size of a finger tip. It probably didn't help, but I don't see why it should have hurt - ? It's probably safer disease-wise than, e.g., most live foods.
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Actually, the point of adding anything initially is to generate ammonia. The point from the Skeptical Aquariast is that adding something organic (like a cookie) that will produce ammonia is likely to be more beneficial than adding the bottled Cycle product. Any human food item will rot and produce ammonia--that's why cocktail shrimp are commonly used to cycle SW tanks. You could throw a prime rib in there, too--but that's a waste of a good steak, IMO.
I think the Skeptical Feller was kidding.
I suspect his point wasn't so much that an oatmeal cookie was a good seed material as that Cycle and the rest of that lot were not. No better or worse than an oatmeal cookie. They're no better or worse than anything organic.
Anything that will decay will attract bacteria that will cause it to happen. This will include bacteria that will eat the nitrogen products that get spun off when the proteins break down.
Shrimp seem to have a certain following from the Salty world.
Fresh simple ammonia from a bottle works just as well and without the smell.
The bacteria are everywhere and they will inevitably find their way to your tank. Maybe just a few an hour passing by, finding good eats, reproducing. The tiny colony may double in size every 24 hours, a few thousand, a few tens of thousands, twice that, twice that, twice that, and in no time at all your talking about millions and then billions. Takes about a week or two for the ammonia eaters and another week or two for the nitrite-eaters. Happens exponentially nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, a little bit, a little more, done.
Always works.
I suspect his point wasn't so much that an oatmeal cookie was a good seed material as that Cycle and the rest of that lot were not. No better or worse than an oatmeal cookie. They're no better or worse than anything organic.
Anything that will decay will attract bacteria that will cause it to happen. This will include bacteria that will eat the nitrogen products that get spun off when the proteins break down.
Shrimp seem to have a certain following from the Salty world.
Fresh simple ammonia from a bottle works just as well and without the smell.
The bacteria are everywhere and they will inevitably find their way to your tank. Maybe just a few an hour passing by, finding good eats, reproducing. The tiny colony may double in size every 24 hours, a few thousand, a few tens of thousands, twice that, twice that, twice that, and in no time at all your talking about millions and then billions. Takes about a week or two for the ammonia eaters and another week or two for the nitrite-eaters. Happens exponentially nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, a little bit, a little more, done.
Always works.
Yeah, I think I mis-read the article on Skeptical Aquarist. I thought that he meant that nitrifying bacteria were everywhere, including oatmeal cookies, so no surprise if they actually do happen to be in a bottle of Cycle, too. That sounds basically right, actually. But I think OrionGirl is right, and his main point was just that the oatmeal cookie's decaying into ammonia would work as well as adding Cycle. Or, for that matter, some drops of ammonia.
I had thought, though, that maybe foodstuffs in the cabinet might have a higher population of nitrifiers than would just be found floating in the air, so I thought adding a bit of them might help things along. Since I had thoroughly disinfected the tank -- I had terrible problems with disease before and will NEVER introduce any fish again without quarantining first -- anyway, since I had disinfected, I knew I was starting from zero bacteria and was looking for any way to speed things up. I certainly wasn't about to add gravel or filter squeezings or ANYTHING from my LFS unless I quarantined it first, so that wouldn't really have helped things get up-and-running faster.
I had thought, though, that maybe foodstuffs in the cabinet might have a higher population of nitrifiers than would just be found floating in the air, so I thought adding a bit of them might help things along. Since I had thoroughly disinfected the tank -- I had terrible problems with disease before and will NEVER introduce any fish again without quarantining first -- anyway, since I had disinfected, I knew I was starting from zero bacteria and was looking for any way to speed things up. I certainly wasn't about to add gravel or filter squeezings or ANYTHING from my LFS unless I quarantined it first, so that wouldn't really have helped things get up-and-running faster.
hey, heres an update
been 10 days yesterday:
ammonia 0ppm
nitrites 2ppm
added ammonia back to 4-8ppm yesterday
oh yea and I seeded the tank with about a pound of gravel from my established tank
been 10 days yesterday:
ammonia 0ppm
nitrites 2ppm
added ammonia back to 4-8ppm yesterday
oh yea and I seeded the tank with about a pound of gravel from my established tank
Bobafish said:
You'll want to be careful with the dosing.
The Nitrite-eaters are more sensitive to ammonia than the ammonia-eaters are (although they have a limit as well).
The normal recommendation for a fishless is to halve the dosage at this stage to about 2-3ppm for that reason. Any reading above zero means that there is more food than the existing bacteria can handle, which means their population will continue to expand. Overdosing won't speed the process up and may very well slow it down.
Patience. Its working.
Hi all,
I am new to this game and am going from what I have read on the internet.
I have a 40l tank (v small) and trying to do a fishless cycle. I have added ammonia every day and eventually Nitrites spiked - I then halved the ammount of ammonia (as I have read) and continued - my Nitrites have been 1.6+ppm for about two weeks but my Nitrates have been 100+ppm for about two weeks also? I was lead to believe that once Nitrates had spiked the Nitrites would fall back to 0?
I have done some water changes to try and get the Nitrates down a bit but even after 50% water changes and another 50% the day after they are still 1.6+ppm Nitrites and 100+ppm for Nitrates?
I have tried water changes I have tried not adding ammonia for a day, I have tried adding slightly more ammonia and slightly less and I have also squeezed out the filter sponge (only in a bucket of the water from the tank as it was getting really mucky).
The tank is planted (only a couple of plants)
I have been patient (started the whole process nearly a month ago) I just don't understand why I have high levels of both Nitrites and Nitrates and for so long - I could understand if I had high Nitrites and no Nitrates - I would understand that the Nitrifying bacteria hadn't developed yet, but presumably they have developed and are converting it into Nitrate. But why hasn't the Nitites fallen to 0 after having high Nitrates for weeks now - Help!!!
I am new to this game and am going from what I have read on the internet.
I have a 40l tank (v small) and trying to do a fishless cycle. I have added ammonia every day and eventually Nitrites spiked - I then halved the ammount of ammonia (as I have read) and continued - my Nitrites have been 1.6+ppm for about two weeks but my Nitrates have been 100+ppm for about two weeks also? I was lead to believe that once Nitrates had spiked the Nitrites would fall back to 0?
I have done some water changes to try and get the Nitrates down a bit but even after 50% water changes and another 50% the day after they are still 1.6+ppm Nitrites and 100+ppm for Nitrates?
I have tried water changes I have tried not adding ammonia for a day, I have tried adding slightly more ammonia and slightly less and I have also squeezed out the filter sponge (only in a bucket of the water from the tank as it was getting really mucky).
The tank is planted (only a couple of plants)
I have been patient (started the whole process nearly a month ago) I just don't understand why I have high levels of both Nitrites and Nitrates and for so long - I could understand if I had high Nitrites and no Nitrates - I would understand that the Nitrifying bacteria hadn't developed yet, but presumably they have developed and are converting it into Nitrate. But why hasn't the Nitites fallen to 0 after having high Nitrates for weeks now - Help!!!
