Fishless Cycling Using Raw Shrimp

[GoldLenny]

While I've never actually used this method (Thread Title) as I haven't had to, I've seen it mentioned hundreds, maybe thousands of times in various forums. I was just re-reading this article, http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html, since I referred someone else to it as a respected article about Columnaris/Flexibacter and Saprolegnia (fungus / mold), I saw this next snip and thought I'd bring up this question for discussion/debate.

Saprolegnia will often get started if there is a large amount of decomposition of nitrogenous organic material such as dead fish left in the aquarium or large amounts of high protein fish food such as krill/shrimp. Injured fish with open sores will amplify this potential problem. This is why I generally recommend against using raw shrimp cycling method recently re-popularized on the internet by a few websites and some forums such as Yahoo answers and that is to use raw shrimp to seed the nitrogen cycle as this can result (as per my own studies) in Saprolegnia getting to strong a hold in a new aquarium (please read further about the lifecycle of Saprolegnia zoospores to also explain the risks, as well as the references).

I imagine the same applies to using decaying fish food to fishless cycle a tank.

Some of the fishless cycling methods I have used and recommend are using cycled filter media from a known healthy tank, the plain ammonia method, Dr. Tim's One And Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria product.... and my all time favorite, peeing in the tank... although I've never photo-documented this method! LOL

Not withstanding the few ways I mentioned above, does anyone else have any thoughts on the higher possibility of introducing fungus/mold into a tank using the raw shrimp or other decaying food matter when fishless cycling?

 

[GuppyGirl1230]

I used fish food to cycle my tanks, and have had no issues whatsoever. I have pristine water in the tanks that I cycles with the fish food, although I did use seeded gravel in those tanks from an established tank, that might have helped. It is definitely plausible to have bacterial/fungal problems from using decaying fish/shrimp, but I think it is rare.

 

[CaitxSith]

I definitely want to learn more about this.

I don't have access to 100% ammonia, and I don't want to use loads of fish food. The idea of just sticking a piece of shrimp in a pantyhose and just leaving it in the water appeals to me for its ease.

 

[Rbishop]

Have seen the raw shrimp method used dozens of times without ill consequences.

 

[RDTigger]

If worry over a small chance for problematic bacteria is there why not just dose the tank with Clout or some other antibiotic to try and sterilize the tank for everything but the BBacteria.. a simple ammonia/nitrite.nitrate test a few days in will let you know if a med has affected your Bacteria colonies in the right/wrong way..

 

[Tom.E]

Flexibacter and Saprolegnia are ubiquitous to the aquatic saprophyte community. To argue WHEN these organisms get established in an aquarium is probably a mute point, IMO.

The linked article probably deseves a little less repect due to the author's claim that Aeromonas is strictly anaerobic. The Genus contains facultative, aerobic, and anaerobic strains. The most common pathogen, Aeromonas hydrophila, is faculative. The aerobes are common in studies concerning aquatic DOC-bacteria interactions .

So "net misinformation" continues...




Tom

 

[joel.uejio]

When I cycled my 55g a year ago I used dried shrimp in a sock. It did cause an outbreak of cottony gunk, but after completing the cycle I did water changes to eliminate that and then added fish. Since then have had no problems with columnaris or anything like that.

 

[GoldLenny]

Flexibacter and Saprolegnia are ubiquitous to the aquatic saprophyte community. To argue WHEN these organisms get established in an aquarium is probably a mute point, IMO.

The linked article probably deseves a little less repect due to the author's claim that Aeromonas is strictly anaerobic. The Genus contains facultative, aerobic, and anaerobic strains. The most common pathogen, Aeromonas hydrophila, is faculative. The aerobes are common in studies concerning aquatic DOC-bacteria interactions .

So "net misinformation" continues...

Tom

Even Aeromonas hydrophila is a facultative ANAEROBIC bacteria that CAN survive in aerobic conditions. It is not strictly either one. It depends on the conditions that exist and then the bacteria CAN survive... which is why it's a nasty little bug... BUT...

You took your presumption out of context. Below, in bold is the paragraph concerning the statement that "Aeromonas is anaerobic" from the article and it's not incorrect to say that since even A. hydrophia IS anaerobic but because it's a facultative anaerobic bacteria, it CAN also survive in aerobic conditions... BUT, that said....

The article is about mold/fuzzy/cottony looking diseases on fish, not about internal bacterial infections or non-fuzzy external bacterial infections. As you can see from the entire paragraph, the author says, "Columnaris has similarities to Aeromonas bacterial infections ..." (italicized words were a link in original article) and if you either click on that link or if you have your browser set up to show you where a link goes to without clicking on it, that link goes to a page about Vibrio and Aeromonas (still talking about anaerobic strains). Yes, the author could have expanded things instead of just saying "Aeromonas is anaerobic" or the author could have said "Columnaris has similarities to SOME Aeromonas bacterial infections", but when providing a link and when the title of the article is about comparing moldy/conttony/fuzzy looking diseases on fish, one could also expect the reader to read everything and keep things in context with the title of the article. Further, we should also AT LEAST include an entire paragraph when considering context and accurately quote the author. The author never used your comment, that Aeromonas was "strictly" anaerobic. Further, your statement would lead folks to believe that A. hydrophia is "strictly" aerobic when it's not. It is an anaerobic bacteria that CAN survive in aerobic conditions due to it being a Facultative Anaerobic Bacteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facultative_anaerobic_organism) AND/OR (http://trishul.sci.gu.edu.au/courses/ss12bmi/micro_groups/fac_anaerobes.html) AND/OR (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T7K-3RH0CXW-M&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F18%2F1997&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1431186139&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2f4d4779eb988810ba7be5d16bf06bed)

Taking things out of context should be left to the LSM and so-called professional reporters. LOL

Here's the full context of the paragraph but even it should be considered in the full context of the entire article.

Columnaris has similarities to Aeromonas bacterial infections in that both are opportunistic, however since Aeromonas is anaerobic it is more prevalent in a tank with high amounts of pollution, DOC and especially poor circulation. While Columnaris being aerobic can occur in tanks with healthy filtration, however is common in a tank with poor mineralization, overcrowding and stress (such as an aggressive fish tank where many inhabitants are constantly bullying others).

Unfortunately the above point is missed by many who often site dirty, stagnant, or otherwise poor water conditions as cause of Columnaris, but since Columnaris is aerobic, it simply cannot thrive in poor water conditions that are low in oxygen as does Aeromonas.
(END SNIPS)

For folks that do not want to read scientific articles or their abstracts, I stand by my original assertion that the article is a very good article and easy enough to read for folks that want to know more.

I'm sure one or more parts of my layman explanation above can also be taken out of context by someone out there.

 

[dundadundun]

ammonia is a lot easier to find than many things we're looking for as aquarists.

 

[GoldLenny]

ammonia is a lot easier to find than many things we're looking for as aquarists.

Yep! Ace Hardware stores and many other neighborhood hardware type stores sell the plain ammonia. I know Ace sells the quart size for under $2.00. It's getting harder to find at grocery stores. All I ever see are the lemon/citrus-scented sudsy types... which can't be used for fishless cycling.