For those who think teachers are "over paid"......

[Lady G]

Most people wish that they could get more money for what they do. Most people agree that most people should get paid more. Then somebody has to sign the check. Too many people don't care as long as it isn't or at least doesn't seem like it's their name on the dotted line. But alot of people are starting to care and it's a good thing. There are some professions in which if you worry too much about how much you're getting paid you should find other work. What is it worth to you to pay the fireman who rushes into your burning home and carrys you to safety? I'll tell you that there is no amount of money that's enough. But a fireman does what he does because of who he is not because of what he gets paid. The same goes for teachers. So he/they don't get paid what we think they're worth.
But they gets paid what they and their employers agree they're worth. That's how it should be. The only person who has any rights to any job is the person who creates it. Unions do what they do by force or threat of force so by their very nature they're immoral. Even more so in the public sector where tax dollars are involved. Anybody wanna make a bet on how long this thread lasts?

So from what you are saying if I "created" a job and wanted to pay my employee's 5.00/hr I should be able to do that. , as for the "tax dollars" I would much rather my money go to someone who helps our kids then the 275,000/yr for the governor to live in his mansion. Now, it wasn't my intent to turn this into a debate over the Union just a point about how much teachers actually make compared to if they were "babysitters" as some seem to think they are.

It's just about impossible for me to touch on many of the "call outs" here without getting very political.

I can say that in my opinion, the private sector / free market system does promote and reward those who work the hardest, take the most initiative, and have the best talent. I already said what i think of public sector unions.

THESE days, the topic at hand cannot honestly be discussed in any depth without it being political. It IS a political topic.

Sorry if this thread was just supposed to be a sunshine and roses, pass the kool aid conversation.

Well, I'm not going to state my opinion on Union here, thats for another place...but there is good and bad for having them.

Maybe this is why they all say teachers are over paid, http://cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g 66% of 8th graders can hardly read, forget more money for education. I was wrong about that as Wisconsin spends the most per child now. Maybe the money should be used to retrain teachers and teach them motivational skills. Also for a public program to get parents more involved in their kids school work.

Ice you said your self it is the parents responsibility to be sure their child/ren do the home work, you can't really blame just the teachers for a childs lack of reading skills. Although, I will agree the teachers should never of passes these students to go on to the next grade before they were ready.
My little sister went to collage to become a teacher, she wanted to help children and be a part of their education. The poor thing, she did not go back after her first year because of the parents and their lack of help..she was so devastated at how parents could be, and couldn't believe how they were so quick to blame the teachers for their childs lack of knowledge, when she tried to get the parents involved, they pretty much turned a blind eye. She is looking for a different school district and I hope she is able to find one, as she is truly in it for the kids, not the money.

I can't speak for other areas of WI, but I know in my kids district the teachers are wonderful and help the children there. I know they do not earn a huge salary, and they have many programs to invole the parents

 

[user_name]

Or just do online school, that way everyone can do it from home. For the few that don't have computers they can meet at a small building to be taught online instead of these huge schools that cost millions to look modern. When did schools have to be anything more then a brick building?

They have this at my school, you can choose to take an "online" class as an elective. All the kids in the program are in classrooms, however they can all be learning different subjects. This is great, because it allows kids to take classes that aren't popular enough to justify a standard class for. I know that world language classes are perfect for this, because there are tons of different important languages, but only a few are popular enough to justify learning. For example, I would love to learn arabic and chinese (will become the two flashpoints for future conflicts, probobly where I'll end up deployed in the event of a war. Also they are developing nations, and need licensed and trained professionals, which I could become in America.) but can't because only a couple other kids are interested in it. Well now with the online classroom I can learn FROM SCHOOL, both of those languages if I choose to.

 

[Lady G]

They have this at my school, you can choose to take an "online" class as an elective. All the kids in the program are in classrooms, however they can all be learning different subjects. This is great, because it allows kids to take classes that aren't popular enough to justify a standard class for. I know that world language classes are perfect for this, because there are tons of different important languages, but only a few are popular enough to justify learning. For example, I would love to learn arabic and chinese (will become the two flashpoints for future conflicts, probobly where I'll end up deployed in the event of a war. Also they are developing nations, and need licensed and trained professionals, which I could become in America.) but can't because only a couple other kids are interested in it. Well now with the online classroom I can learn FROM SCHOOL, both of those languages if I choose to.

That's pretty awesome!

 

[user_name]

It is! My school is under renovation right now, so only juniors and seniors can take it though.

 

[jpappy789]

College does it why not regular school, and its the parents job to make sure their kids are doing their school work, be it at school or home.

And no the teachers have no say but maybe there would be more money for education if the schools weren't being made to look modern, they spend millions on architecture when a plain old brick building would suffice.

Yes, there is less "structure" in college but I would think that a 18-20 whatever year old has a lot more incentive and self motivation than someone even in their earlier teens. Especially when you are then paying for your schooling. I certainly am not going to let thousands of dollars in tuition go down the drain.

How about just getting government out of the schooling business. Let the private sector do it for a while.

If all primary and secondary education became privatized you are essentially setting up a system where the "haves" and the "have nots" are separated by education from the get-go. At the very least public education creates an environment where students have a more level playing field and those that deserve to do well and receive a good education are able to do so. I'm not saying that it always works out that way but at least there is that opportunity in the public system.

 

[IceH2O]

Yes, there is less "structure" in college but I would think that a 18-20 whatever year old has a lot more incentive and self motivation than someone even in their earlier teens. Especially when you are then paying for your schooling. I certainly am not going to let thousands of dollars in tuition go down the drain.

Goes back to parents making sure they do it. My girls are seniors,ask them if I didn't ask every single day if they did any homework or projects. Yes they've lied and said they did but it shows on the progress report if they missed an assignment. If I see that they lose all privileges and make up the work at the kitchen table even if they won't get credit for it. Guess what, they make sure its done because they know they will have to do it anyway and they may as well get a grade for it.
I do the same with my 3rd grade son and will continue to do it. Now I admit I don't do PTA meetings or got involved with the school but I do make sure my kids do what is expected of them. If I can do it while in school I think it would be much easier from home when I can see what the assignments are before they even do them.

 

[tomany]

It's not "have" and "have nots". No such thing. It's about the "want to's" and want not".

 

[FireDancer7905]

Goes back to parents making sure they do it. My girls are seniors,ask them if I didn't ask every single day if they did any homework or projects. Yes they've lied and said they did but it shows on the progress report if they missed an assignment. If I see that they lose all privileges and make up the work at the kitchen table even if they won't get credit for it. Guess what, they make sure its done because they know they will have to do it anyway and they may as well get a grade for it.
I do the same with my 3rd grade son and will continue to do it. Now I admit I don't do PTA meetings or got involved with the school but I do make sure my kids do what is expected of them. If I can do it while in school I think it would be much easier from home when I can see what the assignments are before they even do them.

Ice, while I agree with you in principle, this is not the reality for many families in our country. I teach in a middle school (grade 6-8) where 70% of the students live below the poverty line, less than half have internet access at home, and 80% have English as their second language. Many of their parents (or aunts/uncles/grandparents/older siblings) who are the caretakers work 2 or more time consuming, low-paying jobs just to make ends meet. These kids rarely get to see their parents, and while the parents want their kids to be educated, they don't know how to help when they're not able to spend time with them.

I wish that every student had a parent who had the time to invest in education, to make kids do homework, to help with homework (and have the knowledge to do so), to call teachers, to reinforce the ideas and concepts that are brought up in the classroom. Kids like that are lucky, even if they don't know it.

What it comes down to is what we can control in the classroom. We can read to them/with them. We can teach them how to write. We can drill and kill math facts, and we can show them how math is a part of every day life. We can take away electives and place students in more remediation when they fail. We can love them, despite the fact that they don't really see the point of education yet. Retention has been studied, and shown to be a self-defeating program. Most students who are retained continue to fail, often not because of lack of ability, but rather of motivation. The kids don't know less than they did when we were in school - the measures have just changed.

The NCLB standards article that you linked to a few posts back is flawed, because the tests themselves, as well as the data interpretation, are flawed. The tests differ from state to state. The numbers of ELLs, special ed, etc are not disclosed when comparing results. When you look at apples to apples across international tests, we (the US) actually do quite well. However, in this country we educate ALL children, regardless of economic, social, language, or comprehension barriers. Our national test scores reflect that.

The answers to fix education in this country are not simple, one-paragraph responses. Teacher evaluation or testing, merit pay, retention, more testing, less testing... there are too many variables. It is a huge issue, that not even those of us who teach can answer 100% for all students/schools in all situations.

 

[SubRosa]

So from what you are saying if I "created" a job and wanted to pay my employee's 5.00/hr I should be able to do that. , as for the "tax dollars" I would much rather my money go to someone who helps our kids then the 275,000/yr for the governor to live in his mansion.

You are correct, although i'm a bit curious about why you put the word "created" in quotations. Where do you think jobs come from? If they aren't created by people then please explain where they come from.
An employer has a right to offer whatever wage they want to pay for a job they create, and potential employees have a right to refuse if they feel it isn't enough. Free choice. Interjecting govt inevitably brings force into the equation. Force has no place in civilized discourse amongst civilized people. Unless of course the govt is using force to beat up on someone we don't like, then it's great!

 

[Fishfriend1]

As a student, I think the teachers should get paid more. They have to deal with us kidz, they deserve every penny they get, and then some! Lets see those "overtaxed" parents handle 30+ kidz with short attention spans, teach them, and manage to make it fun at the same time. Hears for the awesome teachers who make the world go round !