Frustrated again with plants

First off, great websites and info to j-gens. I have a little algae presently but not much of a problem at the moment.

I just started the 24/7 on co2 about 16 hours ago so I do not have a good handle on that yet. I slowed down the rate at the same time but I do not have a good reading on the rate other than to say a few BPS or more. When I had timed co2 I was injecting in an almost constant stream which was greater than I am doing now. My Eheim produces no surface agitation but the Aquaclear does a pretty good surface roll. I used to have an air stone on but I stopped that when I started injecting co2. For the record, the Eheim shoots the water down the long side of the tank from left to right and just below the surface. The Aquaclear flows from the back of the tank to the front on the right side of the tank. I would say that there is pretty good water flow throughout the tank as long as I do not cram the plants to the point that they create an almost solid wall. I am anxious to do my weekend water change and hope that it helps a lot to get things back to normal. I never heard about Estimative Index until yesterday and it has peaked my curiosity. I may very well try it after things settle down a little.
Again thanks for the information.
 
It has been very painful watching my plants continually disintegrate since I added the ferts. I decided on a 50% water change to try to filter out as much as I could of the toxic bad guy. I still got several stems of new growth falling off the egeria densa. I have now had 24/7 co2 injection for a few days and the fish are doing well with it. I have very healthy surface agitation on the side with the Aquaclear 110. Although the plants are breaking down they are spitting out oxygen continuously and it is interesting to watch. I will take some test measurements later today to see if anything looks way out of wack. Other than that I will sit back and wait for things to really stabilize out and then hopefully start regenerating. Thank you all for your suggestions.
 
Maybe I missed it, but what type of substrate are you using and how often do you clean it? I'm assuming that since this was a fish only tank first that you have plain gravel, right?
 
My substrate is 3 plus inches of plain gravel. I use a Python water changer weekly and occasionally dig it into the gravel. The gravel is not coated or packed. It is loose and has very little debris other than bits and pieces of plants in the corner near the Eheim intake. I have a large ship carcas on one side of my tank that the loaches like to call home when I am messing around in the tank and I have a large piece of drift wood on the other side with a 9 inch square piece of slate on the base to hold it down. When I set up my 55g which was the predecessor to this 75g I added Fluorite or something of that nature. Unfortunately I was using standard lighting and way too many fish. I was only successful in growing algae. I got discouraged and removed the material when I converted to my 75g about a year ago. After yesterday's water change I removed at least a half dozen broken stems from the egeria. Most of these were tipped with new growth. I have not found any additional broken stems so far today. My lights are not on yet so I have been peeking in with a flashlight. My java moss is showing signs of new growth. This plant had grown like a weed even before the new 220w light fixture probably because it sits high in tank on top of the drift wood. It did get overgrown with dark green algae at one point and I would trim it back as best I could. After adding my ferts last week this plant all but disappeared.
 
what is your method for diffusing co2 into the tank?

I would say if you were having new growth on some of your plants that was a good sign whether the rest of the plant seemed as if it were dying...
it takes a week or two to really see what the changes you are doing to your tank is doing to your plants... it is not instant gratification so be patient...

i really recommend EI dosing to start then start to tailor it to suit your needs specially i.e. if you water tends to have high phosphates then dose a little less to keep it in the 2-5 ppm range....
or if you have plants that are nitrate sumps... then dose a little more nitrates to keep things balanced and your level where it is recommended to be....etc..

CO2 is one of your most important nutrients keep in the right ppm and diffused and distributed well and your plants will definitely do better. This can be done with a powerhead...

make sure you are making you drop checker solution right... distilled water and baking soda

as with your AC you don't want very much surface turbulence as it will off gas the co2 in your tank... maybe a very little just to help o2 exchange at the surface..

dont be surprised to see your java moss grow less as it has more light now.... when i have grown it before it actually did better in low light as it would grow long and tall to try to reach light to photosynthesize when it has a lot of light it seemd to grow less for me
 
J,
I have a Red Sea co2 Pro System which I picked up second hand. It came as a complete kit except for the tester. I seemed to have repetitive issues with the reactor so I built the "Rex Grigg Reactor". What this does is take the final output of co2 and inputs it inline with the output of my Eheim Pro 2 Canister filter between the filter output and the spray bar. I can see constant streams of oxygen coming out of most of my plants. I assume this is a good sign. I tried various means of testing the co2 concentration including buying a glass bulb device which always indicated a green color whether I used aquarium water or a distilled water solution that I made. I bought a co2 test kit that indicates 22-24 which I believe is a good level. Of course I have since adjusted the rate of co2 downward. If the co2 was too low, would the plants still expel oxygen at such a constant rate? When you use a bulb checker how long do you leave it set up in the tank? I left it in for weeks and gradually it seemed to sort of dilute. When I would make a fresh solution I got the same old green color again.

I never got the oxygen bubbles coming out of the plants until I added my 220w light which came about 3 monts after adding my co2 system.


Now on to the surface agitation. Other than adjusting the Aquaclear to a lower flow rate, there is really no way to change the surface rolling that I know of. In one sense my Eheim is probably adequate to filter the entire tank, but I have always believed in extra or excess filtering - partially to make up for our overstocking with fish and occasional overfeeding of food. Is there any reason that I may wish to remove the Aquaclear 110 from my tank?

I originally thought that having timed co2 injection during the lighting period made good sense and the surface agitation from the AC brought the oxygen back into the tank for the overnight feeding of the plants.

Previously you mentioned letting things settle out for a few weeks before starting to add any ferts. I will abide by this unless you feel it may be a good idea to start EI.

I do see more broken stems of Anacharis scattered about and a few stems of my last few vals. Most of the Anacharis is showing browning and stunting of growth. It is still very painful for me to look at what I have done is such a short time. I wish I could turn back time.
 
i personally would start ei and testing your levels in the tank... what size is your tank again?
the ferts that i dose are all dry and i dose
kno3 potassium nitrate for nitrates
kh2po4 mono potassium phosphate for phosphates
k2so4 potassium sulfate for potassium (optional)
and csm b for trace elements
all of these ran me around 30 bucks???? and this should be at least a 6 mo supply?...
i run this on my 125 and i have been using them for about 3 months now and im about halfway through my kno3 and i dose 1.5-2 tsp every other day

the only reason i would tell you to take you ac off is so you could inject less co2 and have it still be sufficient saturation... it is easier on the pocketbook as you dont need to inject as much co2 to get the same level...
if it was my tank i would take the ac off and just point the spray bar just so it is rolling the surface a little tiny bit maybe? but you can experiment and do it slowly while you are to make sure your fish are ok at night.
does your co2 come out of your spray bar in tiny little bubbles or completely saturated?

O2 will be in the water whether co2 is or not... and when you are injecting co2 o2 is still in the water also it doesnt get driven out... (dont quote me on that though)
so if you have a small roll on the top of the tank where gas exchange mostly occurs then you should still be getting o2 into the tank

the plants pearling i believe is "kind of" indicating that you have sufficient o2 in you water column... when the o2 coming off the plants from photosynthesis is not getting dissolved into the water its because there is already enough o2 in the water column. its the o2 that wont dissolve because it has no space to and instead forms a bubble and rises to the surface (dont quote me on that either) lol
i believe this is what i have read in my search for knowledge on planted tanks over time
 
rogerramjet69 said:
Here are some specs: Temp 80, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 15, Phosphate .5, KH via Tetra 3, KH via API 5, GH 0, pH 6.5, O2 8.
Click to expand...

Are you using a home water softener? Plants also need calcium and magnesium, these are considered secondary nutrients. And I don't believe the salt that water softeners commonly replace the calcium and magnesium with do much good for the plants either.
 
7am December 8, 2009.
I have shut down my AC110 and readjusted the spray bar on my Eheim to produce just a slight surface roll. I have added KNO3 and KH2PO4 to my 75g. I do not have a water softener on my home system. I have turned back my CO2 ever so slightly. I will add traces tomorrow and sit back and see how things develop.
 
this is what your dosing should look like
60-80 gallon tanks
50% H20 change-weekly
3/4 Tsp-KN03 3x a week
3/16 Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
3/16Tsp-Trace 3x a week
Optional
4-8ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week

today you should just be checking and watching to make sure you get enough co2 in your tank... i would predict with a small surface roll you should start with injecting maybe 2 bubbles per second and then judge it with your drop checker from there...
if your drop checker turns green after a few hours you should be in a good range and just watch to make sure it doesnt turn yellow... a slight green yellow is fine... you are shooting for 30 ppm

what some people do for their fish at night when they are worried about co2 poisoning is simply A)use the solenoid and have the co2 off at night OR B)put an airstone on a timer to come on at night while the lights are out and off a couple hours before the lights come on to allow the co2 level to build up enough

i personally dont do either i started with a solenoid but it was leaking co2 out of it so i eliminated that part now i have 24/7 co2 and things are fine...
 
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