Fuzz on the tail??

sdb said:
If you'd read beviking's post a little closer, you'd see he was not only telling about proper treating of Ich, but that Ich can lead to wound infections, which could very well be what was on your fish that died. It could have turned into a fungus type infection, which, left untreated, killed your fish. A lot of fungus type infections look like cottony fuzz.

Or the fish could have come into your tank already sick/wounded and when it got infected, it looked like fuzz. It's common, as you'll read on other posts. And treatable. Sometimes contagious, sometimes not, but by letting the fish die in the tank, you increased the chance of infecting the tank.

Your tank should have a reading of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite. Even trace amounts are unhealthy and unsafe for fish. It would be a good idea to re-test and find out why your test results are up, especially if you're doing daily water changes.

On a last note, your tank can get Ich pretty much just as easily at 79F as it can at 74F. While 74 is low, I don't know that it would stress your fish enough to get Ich.
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Diane I'm not trying to be a smart elleck but I read very well. While I appreciate bevikings help we are way off course here. I KNOW that ICH leaves wounds and I know they get infected. My tetras were the hardest hit and all of them had the wounds. My ANGELFISH never had ICH, she came into the tank with something wrong with her tail and somethign was wrong with her. While I'm still very much a newb I have been researching alot and talking to other fishkeepers and observing my fish. Something was wrong with her. She always hid and was always hanging around the heater never moving. Now the fuzz on her tail could have been a fungus from the destruction I saw on her tail.......alot of nippage. Fin rot? dont know thats why I'm asking. I dont want another fish to die. But I dont want to go down a road of things Im SURE it WASNT.

As for treatment of ICH, I have probably read about every article and every post that you can find on the web about it.(and thats no exaggeration) Some says it dies at 82 some say it dies at 86, some say salts some have a huge warning against it. I've talked to people who have done it some had success with it and alot didnt. If you drop a fish into a NEW tank that has come from a tank that was substained at 80 and drop it into one at 74 you dont think thats going to stress a fish??? With so much conflicting opinions out there and expert articles I finally found one that made the most sense.(actually a couple said this but..) Fish dont have meds in the wild. FIND YOUR STRESS. I look at my box of fish meds having gone thru bottles upon bottles of ICH meds (the ones not working) and the bottles of chemicals I have. I get back on the web read more about MY FISH, not a one likes it below 78, some as high as the maximum 82 . I put my carbon back in raised my temp slowly,started with a 50% water change, then to daily 25's and went to using only stress coat and a conditioner no ICH meds and no other chemicals......my fish are mending and the ICH is barely visible. Bala Sharks were covered. Not a spot insight. What was ongoing for weeks always getting worse was solved indays. And while it is possible to get ICH in your tank at 80, what I said was it "rarely" rears its ugly head in a higher substained tank. Talking to people that substain there tanks at that temp. 9/10 of them have said they havent seen ICH in years. As for my water it gets tested weekly when I go to my LFS. I'll have my own kit by the end of the month. I have a 55g tank (in which my balas are not staying for long) while zero is considered optimal its a very hard thing to accomplish. My ammonia was WELL BELOW a safe amount my NITRITE was high but still at a safe zone. But I am trying to find the cause of the NITRITE level.....still a new tank? maybe. We'll know today when I take it back in. As for taking the sick angel out.........put her where? At the time I did not know about the freezer thing. She was still alive, FOR ME (not judging others) I couldnt flush her. So I put her in a breeder so she wouldnt be tortured. Hopefully if and when there is a next time I'll have a quarantine tank and a fish will move immediately or I will do a humane uthanizing.

My problem was and is still a fish I'm positive was not right coming INTO the tank. That had shredded fins that developed a fuzz on those shredded fins. You've mentioned a bacteria getting into wounds?? Research has been unable to turn up anything definative. But I'd like to hear more about THAT so as to get to the bottom of it and not lose more fish.

Sorry for the long post.
 
What! :eek: No research? G.O.O.G.L.E. for columnaris. Here's one of I don't know how many...
http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/columnaries.shtml

Columnaris is the worst offender as far as fish ailments go at our hatchery. I have personally seen (under magnification in our lab) columnaris bacteria (taken by myself) from gill tissue samples, fin/tail samples, and scrapings from the body.

But, since you're not willing (or unable, I know, there IS a lot out there!) to decipher good sound advice from beliefs, searching may not help either. We are trying to help. You take in all the advice and make a decision using your own judgement. That's all we can do. Unless you live nearby, then I'd come over personally. But then I'd be taking over and doing something you didn't like and you'd hate me and we (I) don't want that!;)

-You're correct, fish don't have meds in the wild. Fish also have a constant source of fresh water (in most cases) so that ich or bacteria are constantly flushed away.
-0 Ammonia, nitrite, even nitrate are NOT a hard thing to accomplish. Once there, it is easy to get "spikes" by overfeeding, adding chemicals that kill some beneficial bacteria, or allowing organic material (plant, fish) to decompose.
-A fish with torn fins will be fine as long as the water parameters are fine. Fine = 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, <20ppm nitrate, stable pH and temperature. I have brought fish home with damaged fins. They heal within 2 weeks.
-Recommended fish temperatures are just that, recommended. A variation +/- 5 degrees isn't going to matter much to most fish, certainly not angels. I keep my tank at 74 and have kept angels.
-I think your stress was your low levels of ammonia and nitrite plus the damaged fins.
-If you think something works, try it, let us know how it works out.

Just trying to help :D

Bill
 
beviking said:
What! :eek: No research? G.O.O.G.L.E. for columnaris. Here's one of I don't know how many...
http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/columnaries.shtml

Columnaris is the worst offender as far as fish ailments go at our hatchery. I have personally seen (under magnification in our lab) columnaris bacteria (taken by myself) from gill tissue samples, fin/tail samples, and scrapings from the body.

But, since you're not willing (or unable, I know, there IS a lot out there!) to decipher good sound advice from beliefs, searching may not help either. We are trying to help. You take in all the advice and make a decision using your own judgement. That's all we can do. Unless you live nearby, then I'd come over personally. But then I'd be taking over and doing something you didn't like and you'd hate me and we (I) don't want that!;)

-You're correct, fish don't have meds in the wild. Fish also have a constant source of fresh water (in most cases) so that ich or bacteria are constantly flushed away.
-0 Ammonia, nitrite, even nitrate are NOT a hard thing to accomplish. Once there, it is easy to get "spikes" by overfeeding, adding chemicals that kill some beneficial bacteria, or allowing organic material (plant, fish) to decompose.
-A fish with torn fins will be fine as long as the water parameters are fine. Fine = 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, <20ppm nitrate, stable pH and temperature. I have brought fish home with damaged fins. They heal within 2 weeks.
-Recommended fish temperatures are just that, recommended. A variation +/- 5 degrees isn't going to matter much to most fish, certainly not angels. I keep my tank at 74 and have kept angels.
-I think your stress was your low levels of ammonia and nitrite plus the damaged fins.
-If you think something works, try it, let us know how it works out.

Just trying to help :D

Bill
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Bill I know you were trying to help and I THANK YOU. If I sound harsh and frustrated its cause I am, NOT AT YOU. I didnt like losing her and felt helpless (never thought I'd feel that way about a fish LOL) I'm MORE than willign to do research thats all I've done. I feeling like I'm back in school cramming for finals. LOL

But let me stress points here that I think my frustration is coming from. Im positive this had nothing to do with ICH. Now a fungus after an injury. I'm willing to listen because that sounds VERY plausible. I'd love to have more info on that or a place I can go to. But I feel confident not from and ICH sore. I saw plenty of those on my tetras. Now she may have had ICH before I got her that caused it, but I dont think so I go to a very small LFS store, more pricier but better fish and better experience. And have gotten very close to their fish keepers they I think would have told me. However I cant explain the shredded tail, maybe they thought shed be fine...who knows.

As for temp............after the research I did apply it, It worked, the difference in these fish is remarkable. I know that temps are only recommended but when the recommendation is 74-82 (which pretty much covers all tropicals and your at 74 and you find out that your LFS keeps those tanks at 80 and drop them in at 74, all the consistent recommendations for my fish were 79-82. So I have applied that.

But back to the problem I thank you for your help and would appreciate any help in getting to the "fuzz" problem.
 
puresouthern said:
... I feeling like I'm back in school cramming for finals. LOL
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Yeah, except there is more than one textbook and there are several different answers for the same question! :thud:

O.k., we're positive the fungus/bacteria didn't infect an ich wound. An infection can arise from other "wounds" that may or may not penetrate the skin. Abrasion from a net, scraping an ornament/rock while trying to be captured or from the intial "scoot" when you put the fish in the tank (you know, the fish swims fast, "scoots" out of the bag, net, cup when you initially put them in the tank). When sampling fish at the hatchery, we net up a couple pounds of fish and there is always some columnaris outbreak 2-3 days after.
There is a relationship between the host, pathogen, and environment. If the host is healthy, the environment favorable, and the pathogen occurrs in low numbers the fish stay healthy. The weaker the fish, less favorable the environment, and the more pathogens present, the more likely the fish will be susceptable to the pathogen. There are always pathogens (bacteria, fungus, could be parasites) present unless your water is sterile. To add a weak and/or damaged/infected fish to an unfavorable environment = certain infestation.

On to the fuzz. Most lfs sell fungus/bacteria meds and I would recommend using one. Personally I've used Tetracycline with success (although some speculate there are resistant bacteria), but I know I was treating columnaris.
Be careful of adding meds that will harm your beneficial bacteria or you'll go through this again! Remove the carbon when treating, do water changes daily. Anything else I can say that you haven't already read?;)

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/columnaris.htm
http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/columnaries.shtml
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/columnaris.html >1 bacteria covered
http://www.thatfishshop.com/health/fish_fungus.htm
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/fungus.htm
It has been my experience that 99 out of 100 infections of fish will be bacterial vs. fungal.
I hope this helps. :thud:
 
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beviking said:
Yeah, except there is more than one textbook and there are several different answers for the same question! :thud:

O.k., we're positive the fungus/bacteria didn't infect an ich wound. An infection can arise from other "wounds" that may or may not penetrate the skin. Abrasion from a net, scraping an ornament/rock while trying to be captured or from the intial "scoot" when you put the fish in the tank (you know, the fish swims fast, "scoots" out of the bag, net, cup when you initially put them in the tank). When sampling fish at the hatchery, we net up a couple pounds of fish and there is always some columnaris outbreak 2-3 days after.
There is a relationship between the host, pathogen, and environment. If the host is healthy, the environment favorable, and the pathogen occurrs in low numbers the fish stay healthy. The weaker the fish, less favorable the environment, and the more pathogens present, the more likely the fish will be susceptable to the pathogen. There are always pathogens (bacteria, fungus, could be parasites) present unless your water is sterile. To add a weak and/or damaged/infected fish to an unfavorable environment = certain infestation.

On to the fuzz. Most lfs sell fungus/bacteria meds and I would recommend using one. Personally I've used Tetracycline with success (although some speculate there are resistant bacteria), but I know I was treating columnaris.
Be careful of adding meds that will harm your beneficial bacteria or you'll go through this again! Remove the carbon when treating, do water changes daily. Anything else I can say that you haven't already read?;)

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/columnaris.htm
http://article.dphnet.com/cat-02/columnaries.shtml
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/columnaris.html >1 bacteria covered
http://www.thatfishshop.com/health/fish_fungus.htm
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/fungus.htm
It has been my experience that 99 out of 100 infections of fish will be bacterial vs. fungal.
I hope this helps. :thud:
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It did thank you :D
 
"If you drop a fish into a NEW tank that has come from a tank that was substained at 80 and drop it into one at 74 you dont think thats going to stress a fish???"

do aclimate your fish or do you just drop them in? The water in the bags shouldn't be that far off. So the Net and release would work with hardey fish but might not with say neons, that are more sensitive.

"FIND YOUR STRESS. I look at my box of fish meds having gone thru bottles upon bottles of ICH meds (the ones not working) and the bottles of chemicals"

This could be a stress to your fish, so its a good thing you stopped using them,did large water changes

What else do you have in the tank? Its also good that the balas are getting removed.

Did you ever cure the ich before you treated for the fungus, did you treat for the fugus? What cured your ich?
 
This could be a stress to your fish, so its a good thing you stopped using them,did large water changes

Once I decided to take a new route I did a 50% then Ive been doing 25's everyday. Almost done. :D

What else do you have in the tank? Its also good that the balas are getting removed.
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1angel, the other died
4 gouramis
3 mollies
1pictus catfish
2balas (there only about 5inches right now)
1 cardinal tetras
1 albinoe bristlenose
3 otos
3 CAE's (who Ive been warned about and watching

I lost 6 tetras and 1 silver molly. As soon as I get a quarantine I'll get more tetras so they can school and at least another angel I'd like to have more but we'll see. Probably wait until balas are out first.

Did you ever cure the ich before you treated for the fungus, did you treat for the fugus?
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Never got a chance to cure for the fungus it was there in the morning she was dead by afternoon. She never had ICH neither of the Angels did and 2 of the gouarmis. ICH is gone out of the tank but I'll do daily water changes for another day or so and then do another major one.


What cured your ich?
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I had been battle for weeks using bottles and bottles of MEDS they just kept getting worse tetras taking the brunt of it. Did alot of research and talking to people and eventually combined three methods:

Raised temp to 80F, put carbons back in, did a 50% water change, cleaned the side walls vaccuumed the rocks. ( sterilized them above 86F after use) then went to 25% water changes everyday, cleaning walls, vaccuming and rinsing filter. Always making sure I cleaned everything above 86F for any parasites on equipment. The results happened quickly. while I chose no meds I'm not making that recommendation, they werent working for ME. But sticking to that regiment and finding their stress such as the temp and chems to up that lower that and reduction in what I used, my fish became so different. And most importantly ICH FREE. Without causing them more un-needed stress.
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