GBR possible disease??

I agree with the clean water theory. in a 10 gallon by himself with bare bottom and getting 50% water changes and overfiltration via a 30 HOB my guy lasted like 6 months. So clean water helps in my experience but it can't reverse it. I guess you can kind of think of it like aids, there is no cure but with proper treatment you can still prolong you life much longer.
 
Would it be advisable to treat with metronidazole along with the other course of treatment I am using? Perhaps this would head off any further infecton in the other three rams. Is it safe with the increased salt content in the water? We are up to 1 Tbsp per 5 Gal at this time.
 
Sonycrr,

I think you may be right about the carbon thing.

I read a couple nights ago about some folks who believe this to be true. There seems to be some compelling evidence to suggest that GBR's may be sensetive to carbon and that HIH has been brought on by their exposure to it, although there are also experiences where it's been used with no problems or it hasn't been used and there was still an HIH infection. Certainly not enough evidence to prove the theory beyond a shadow of a doubt, but enough to take the precaution none the less. Which we did as soon as I read that. We had a carbon mat in our trickle Wet/Dry which we removed. Perhaps that is also behind the sudden improvement.
 
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here are my thoughts on HITH/HLLE

I personally believe it is partly genetic..the defense mechanism to fend off the issue.. some fish from the same brood exposed to same tank set up 1 in 6 gets HITH...

I believe some are just more prone or some are less vulnerable fish have responded to metronidazole treatment but they do eventually pass .

btw, no carbon in the tanks
I do suspect hex as the culprit.. diet not so much since my fish get varied good quality food.
 
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Sorry to hear the problems with GBR. I just cant believe the difficulties with GBR. GBR was one of easiest ones to keep and breed. I know of issues with common BR, but never with gbr when ideal conditions were given.

Never had HITH and never had one developed bump on the head either.
Even when I visit my lfs from time time, I have not seen any problems other than mated pairs chasing one another over space (turf war) in small tank.

If he is getting better, contunue what your are doing.
FYI, try obtaining from local breeder or from members of fish club/society, if and when possible.

Good Luck!
 
Update Lumpy GBR

Wow..No success stories. Hope we can beat the odds here.

As of this evening the "lump" has receded for the most part. Very little swelling still present and a few scales appear to be lifted on the side that was a bit worse.

I am still a bit stumped. We began treatment within 24 hours of seeing the symptoms appear. As the photo shows, there is a bump, but no white pustules, no eruptions, no open wounds..just the lifted scales.

It seems, from what I am reading here, it is very likely the same issue, but not all the symptoms are manifested here. Also, the apparent improvement we are seeing without a wound opening up seems curious.

It would be interesting to know if all these issues really are HIH or something else. I must say the possibility of genetic weakness scares me a bit since we plan on adding angels and discus at a later date and both these species are known to contract this disease.

I guess I'm wondering whether it would be wiser to remove this fish from the tank if there is a possibility she will continue to carry the disease.

I'm curious.. has anyone who has posted here had any problems with the spread of this disease from the GBR's to other species in the tank, even after treatment?
 
if it is HITH the probably cause is linked to Hexamita.. this is the flagelatted protozoa most commonly seen in the digestive tract.. the issue is the protazoa affect the fishes ability to absorb nutrient..which is often why it is linked with HITH/HLLE that is related to poor diet.

in any case I have seen it manifest in a tank with angels. discus and rams with only a sole fish infected.. all others were fine and never showed SX of the infestation.


I have seen it manifest in species tanks with only 1-2 infected fish.

the tanks in question..recieved 2-3 water changes of 40-50% weekly.. diet is varied using high quality food source.
this would eliminate or greatly reduce water quality issues as a source ot contributing factor.
it alos reduced food as a contributing factor as all inhabitants weree in the same conditions.. during the infections all inhabitants had normal interest in food and ate accordingly.

this is what leads me to think that some fish are just better able to deal with the infestation or that only some fish had little resistance.

I have seen it happen on locally bred fish (including rams)

I also feel that some speices are more sensitive(blue rams have this history)

I have kept angels, discus and both species of rams..

in all the fish I have kept the highest incidence occurred with the blue rams. with no instances with Bolivian Rams.

keep in mind tho that HITH may only be one Sx of protozoan infestation,

Metronidazole is an antibiotic that seems to kill the protozoa and will also have added effect on possible secondary bacterial infection.

this is IME
and results can vary with other peoples experiences.
 
So it seems prudent to take precautions but... the fish who are prone to it will probably still get it and the one who aren't won't, regardless of tankmates. It will be soo much better to discover this in the quarantine tank so we don't have to go through this again!

Well I may just go ahead and run a treatment of Metronidazole after the course with salt and Melafix just to make sure we don't have HITH/HEX or anything else still floating around in there.

Lumpy looked even better this morning, the swelling is all but gone although she still has some raised scales which look a little white and flaky, like they will fall off when she grows new ones. I don't see anything sinking in or forming craters/wounds at this point.

We are up to the salt max but I still see some flashing. After we turned up the heat and started adding salt the larger cysts I had noticed before, fell off in about a day and half. Now I can see some very, very small cysts but more of them. I am assuming this is the offspring of the original infection and they will soon die without reproducing themselves.
Temp is steady at 86.

I will let everyone know if she makes it.
 
Success!!

I am happy to report a success story!

This morning I could hardly tell her apart from the other 3 Rams. Her skin is smooth, no swelling and even the white scales are gone. All seem healthy and happy. Just have to take care of the remnants of Ich and hopefully that will clear in the next few days. Maybe we can relax now.

We are keeping up the salinity and heat as well as nightly Melafix treatment for the two week duration. We will do a Vac/Water change this weekend and next. Then we will start weaning them off of the salt and melafix. For good measure we are going to run a two day course of the metronidazole after that second waterchange.

FYI: I'm new at this, so I didn't really know until I asked. Our LFS runs no carbon in their systems. They keep about a Tablespoon of salt per 5 Gal in their water at all times and also treat with melafix every night. Sometimes they even feed melafix to clear internal parasites. They said nothing to me about this when I purchased the fish.

It seems on the surface this might be a good thing for them to do, but I can imagine with all this treatment, and not knowing when the fish have arrived, if you take these fish home and do nothing, no salt, no melafix, maybe have lots of carbon in your system, you are bound to have problems. It just seems logical that it would be better to wean off of these treatments rather than take the fish off cold turkey.

Just another good reason to either research the heck out of everything you buy or purchase from a local breeder as many here advise.

I don't think I would have been able to treat this fish successfully had I not caught it with in 24 hours and acted quickly on the research and advice I received here.
 
Good news.. hope it was ich with a secondary infection.
if the white spots fell of and did not erupt... i would venture to say you are not seeing HITH.. a good thing.

btw, under normal circumstances you do not need to add salt(Nacl) to a freshwater aquarium.

I would venture to say melafix/pimafix has very little impact on most internal parasites.

normal course of action is to treat with specific treatment for prescribed times.. then do wather changes and add carbon to help remove meds.

good luck and hang in there
 
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